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St. Crispin's Appreciation Thread - Page 348

post #5206 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldinboston View Post

Couldnt agree more.
For a company that theoretically only makes 1500 pairs a year that means that the russian leather accounts for very few pairs overall.
Clearly there is a quality problem as there are a handful of people that have already mentioned this problem on this thread alone (i dont know how many other have had this issue, maybe none but probably not).
While quality issues are less tolerated when you are selling 1500 USD shoes, they can happen, as no one is perfect.
However burying your head in the sand and pretending is not there is the biggest problem here. Thats unacceptable an unacceptable business practice when you are trying to sell luxury goods. You need to be willing to stand behind your products and try to fix the problem.

Also when people post "hey my pair looks fine" that does not mean there is no problem at all, it just means that probably not every pair is defective or has an issue. But even if a few have a problem (like Moosic) thats too much at this price range and taking into account how few Russian leather shoes StCs makes a year.

But again the biggest issue here is the unwillingness to admit there is an issue in the first place

Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

FUN leather sucks as much.

I'm just a customer not vendor and has no skin in their game.

I have a couple pairs in FUN and I would agree that it shows much much more wear than the average leather but is no where near as bad as russian calf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I don't understand you people. Clearly hatch grain leather has issues across all brands, and it has to do with the leather, not the maker. If you don't like how it looks after some wears just don't get hatch grain. Problem solved. This isn't difficult, people.

As an earlier poster mentioned G&G has shoes in this leather and they don''t have the same issues. Beyond that when shoes look as poorly as these after just 3 wears there is a real quality issue. I will post my pair when I return from traveling next week.
post #5207 of 6234
It seems like many here have issues with crust finished shoes. These leathers are supposed to show wear. It is kind of the point. If you don't like it than get box calf shoes. I just think the logical progression of many users in this forum is flawed: Many users don't like the way hatch grain wears therefore Saint Crispins are not good shoes. That's absurd, it is just the nature of that particular leather. I believe I posted my theory on it in this very thread, which I will repost. Also, why would you buy the same patterned leather shoes and expect a different result? FWIW, I think those really marked up shoes were definitely scuffed by the user without knowing it. Areas of the shoe that don't bend won't shoe that kind of polish displacement unless they are bumped into something.
post #5208 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I don't know I think those Russian Reindeer shoes look kind of cool. It sucks that it happened, but they certainly aren't garbage. Looks more like the patina a lot of people pay extra for in many other makers. It seems it is just a finishing problem. I've never worked with russian reindeer embossed leather, but if I had to guess the embossing seals the pores and compresses the fibers of the leather so any dye applied doesn't penetrate as well and the creams and waxes applied to further add color displace when the shoe is worn. I could be wrong, but perhaps Saint Crispin should just get finished russian reindeer leather to avoid the problem that the embossing has on a crust finish. All that said, I still think they kind of look cool.
post #5209 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewStart View Post

I am not sure if I can agree with this opinion though. Obviously, customers are paying the price for not doing their homework (not that there was much information available until the issue is brought up recently though), but as business owner if you tell your customers that it is their problems, not yours, i doubt that the business will last very long.

When issue is identified, i think it is best to acknowledge and fix it, not to hide away from it.

It certainly does warrant a re-evaluation of my relationship with the seller.
post #5210 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecwy View Post

Some quick and dirty pics.. these are my Zonkey Boots in Russian calf after 3 wears and no additional polish. As you can see, it has lightened up in the crease areas but looks all right to me. If you are OCD then perhaps you may not find it ok. Imo, nowhere near as bad as the example MoosicPA posted which would also drive me nuts.

Planning to bring this along a long trip so another 10 wears and plenty of walking/scuffing expected.

Let me know if I should move this to another thread for discussion.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)








this is how it is supposed to look.
post #5211 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It seems like many here have issues with crust finished shoes. These leathers are supposed to show wear. It is kind of the point. If you don't like it than get box calf shoes. I just think the logical progression of many users in this forum is flawed: Many users don't like the way hatch grain wears therefore Saint Crispins are not good shoes. That's absurd, it is just the nature of that particular leather. I believe I posted my theory on it in this very thread, which I will repost. Also, why would you buy the same patterned leather shoes and expect a different result? FWIW, I think those really marked up shoes were definitely scuffed by the user without knowing it. Areas of the shoe that don't bend won't shoe that kind of polish displacement unless they are bumped into something.


I completely agree! 

 

hatch grain gets changes to the leather much faster, but develops a nice patina if taken care of. 

 

I also agree that the marks that are not at creasing points are from scuffing the leather, most likely from hitting the shoe with the heel of the other foot, or banging onto something when walking. 

post #5212 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post


I completely agree! 

hatch grain gets changes to the leather much faster, but develops a nice patina if taken care of. 

I also agree that the marks that are not at creasing points are from scuffing the leather, most likely from hitting the shoe with the heel of the other foot, or banging onto something when walking. 

No.
post #5213 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It seems like many here have issues with crust finished shoes. These leathers are supposed to show wear. It is kind of the point. If you don't like it than get box calf shoes. I just think the logical progression of many users in this forum is flawed: Many users don't like the way hatch grain wears therefore Saint Crispins are not good shoes. That's absurd, it is just the nature of that particular leather. I believe I posted my theory on it in this very thread, which I will repost. Also, why would you buy the same patterned leather shoes and expect a different result? FWIW, I think those really marked up shoes were definitely scuffed by the user without knowing it. Areas of the shoe that don't bend won't shoe that kind of polish displacement unless they are bumped into something.

SC high priced -> SC is great -> SC can do no wrong -> Whiners don't understand SC

Meh.

Thread turning into those useless 5 star reviews on Yelp.
post #5214 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


No.


what do you mean? 

 

of course there could be problems with the specific leather used in the shoe, but it doesn't just have to be from just this maker. Of course the finishing of the leather after the shoe is made may help the leather to not show as many marks if done correctly, but I believe that the problem is more the leather itself. 

 

I have a swatch of the same leather from Horween (don't ask how I was able to get it because I can't say). I tried creasing it without the leather being finished and it still gets that change in color with a white or lightening coming into that crease where it appears to have the pigment leaving the leather. 

 

I even have tried doing the same with a darker version of the same leather and it still does this but to a lesser extent, and neither of these were finished at all. They are right from the hide before it is used to make a shoe.

 

Hope that helps a bit and if this helps at all, I will be getting a pair made in this leather just to show that I am faithful in the leather itself, but it will take some time to have my pair made. I also will make sure to give details on how I care for the shoe. 

post #5215 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


SC high priced -> SC is great -> SC can do no wrong -> Whiners don't understand SC

Meh.

Thread turning into those useless 5 star reviews on Yelp.


of course all brands can have problems just due to the fact that they are made by hand. if anyone who knows shoes well enough wants to be critical, we can probably find fault in almost any shoe that we are shown in person. 

post #5216 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post


I completely agree! 

hatch grain gets changes to the leather much faster, but develops a nice patina if taken care of. 

I also agree that the marks that are not at creasing points are from scuffing the leather, most likely from hitting the shoe with the heel of the other foot, or banging onto something when walking. 

You have no clue as to what you are talking about, and before you make stupid statements about other peoples isuues you should get a clue first.
post #5217 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoosicPa View Post

You have no clue as to what you are talking about, and before you make stupid statements about other peoples isuues you should get a clue first.

Moosic
Clearly the lesson learned here is that if you are going to get drunk and stumble all over yourself you should not wear your StCs. More of an EG task..... (insert sarcasm emoji here)
post #5218 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldinboston View Post

Moosic
Clearly the lesson learned here is that if you are going to get drunk and stumble all over yourself you should not wear your StCs. More of an EG task..... (insert sarcasm emoji here)

LOL.... evidently mw313 either thinks I'm a drunk stumbling over my own feet, or a bumbling dufus tripping over my own feet and stumbling into things all day long.... some people just talk outta their asses to sound self important. I have shoes that I have worn for 10+ years that still look almost as good as the day I bought them, not scratched or scuffed from my "hitting the shoe with the heel of the other foot, or banging onto something when walking."
post #5219 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoosicPa View Post


You have no clue as to what you are talking about, and before you make stupid statements about other peoples isuues you should get a clue first.

I hope that my comments below will show you that I don't need to "get a clue" because I already have a thorough knowledge of the subject and many topics surrounding it as well. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldinboston View Post


Moosic
Clearly the lesson learned here is that if you are going to get drunk and stumble all over yourself you should not wear your StCs. More of an EG task..... (insert sarcasm emoji here)

That sounds like a good idea!!!!! Probably should be sober when wearing St. C shoes or be ready to not complain about messing them up!!! lol (yes this is sarcastic just in case someone can't tell)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoosicPa View Post


LOL.... evidently mw313 either thinks I'm a drunk stumbling over my own feet, or a bumbling dufus tripping over my own feet and stumbling into things all day long.... some people just talk outta their asses to sound self important. I have shoes that I have worn for 10+ years that still look almost as good as the day I bought them, not scratched or scuffed from my "hitting the shoe with the heel of the other foot, or banging onto something when walking."


I'm sorry that you feel that way @MoosicPa , but that is not what I am saying at all. You should know by now, based on my history of posted on Styleforum, to which many members would back up, I am one to say what I can to help others in their shoe choice. I use my professional back ground to help support this even further beyond just personal experience. I take this attack as a bit out of line, but I am expecting that you are just taking it the wrong way. If I came across the wrong way and offended you, then I am sorry, but it was meant as a way to help others learn of the possibilities of the causes leading to this damage you have spoken of. 

 

It is quite common for a person to walk and hit the inner edges of their heels against the inner side of the shoe because most people have an outward facing angle of the foot of about 5-10 degrees (abduction). This isn't even with me factoring pronation/supination, inversion/eversion and other biomechanics terms that are way out of the scope of these comments. Most leathers are able to cover these minor scuffs up and waxing the heel region will actually protect that area even further. The problem with this leather is that between the compression to make the "hatch" grain as well as the dying and finishing process, this leather does not hold the dye/pigment anywhere near as well as other leathers. The pigment leaves the leather with regular use, which is what causes that white discoloration and disappearance of color. That is normal for this leather with regular wear, but people don't seem to realize that this is from the flexion of the leather and rubbing against the leather on the other side of the flexed material at the vamp.

 

When a person scuffs their shoe, whether it be from another shoe or just bumping into something lightly, there is a rubbing that can remove the pigment in the same manner. This happens in all shoes overtime but is greatly exaggerated with this leather due to the characteristics mentioned above. All that needs to be done with normal wear is to put more time into care of this leather by applying conditioner and follow up with creme polish to add much more pigment into the leather. This will need to be done quite a few times and probably done after each wear for a while, but then the pigment will have become impregnated into the leather enough to hold more into the shoe before showing a fading again. 

 

I have been trying to avoid talking about this until it is all finished, but I am working on an experiment with the leather where two people (one being me) are both bending and even scratching the leather. We are keeping track of the wear and also seeing which conditioning/polishing techniques and products are working well to keep the leather looking in better shape. After it is all finished, we are planning on showing pictures of the result, but we are doing it over many months to see the long term effect of our protocol. 

 

I hope that helps to clarify things for people but I can tell you that your results will vary with this leather just due to the nature of the leather and the extra level of care that is needed when wearing the show as well as increased frequency of care. It is a great leather but it has its limitations depending on the owner.

post #5220 of 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post


of course all brands can have problems just due to the fact that they are made by hand. if anyone who knows shoes well enough wants to be critical, we can probably find fault in almost any shoe that we are shown in person. 

Not really. SC problems are mostly clicking and finishing related.

And occasional pegs falling out.

Just stating facts. I only have 5 pairs and one of them has making problem and one clicking. Won't buy them unless I find steep discount.
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