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Anyone else pretty much stopped coming to SF after the change over? - Page 8  

post #106 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclam View Post

The issue is that the ability to read posts and get useful information has been reduced.
If you look at why apple is successful with their products - minimal interfaces and intuitive usage of their products, I do feel that this forum has gone in the opposite direction.

We are not Apple, but we are tightening up our visuals. You'll see some fairly drastic improvements throughout the next few weeks.
post #107 of 176
The thing I want to know is how on earth you can turn off the bloody personal messenger so that you don't get in inbox full of idiots asking you "what size RM Williams boots should I buy?"

I am going to try to log into my account every few months and then delete the old RM Williams boot questions (and probably any other PMs). As a forum admin myself, I don't have time to answer these questions or spend time at other fora chatting much.
post #108 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post


True, and I hope you're right. Summer is always slow around these parts, with less interest in tailored clothing. So hopefully fall will offer a course correction. But just as tides go in and out, forums evolve. Look at Andy's -- the talk of bespoke and high-end tailored clothing gave way to a much more democratized, anything goes approach to dressing well. Here, the tastes seem to be shifting from old-man tweed to a much more peacocky, GQ approach to dress. In a way, this doesn't surprise me, as both here and at Andy's the shift seems to be from a niche interest to something with a more mainstream appeal. Perhaps this is the natural evolution of this sort of forum. It might even be good for SF in the long run, as there are probably far more young guys interested in SF's new focus than in its old one.

The n00bs really aren't the issue for me. I've always enjoyed helping newcomers, such as I could. But these days, many of the questions they're asking are better answered by someone else. I don't necessary think they're wrong, or feel the need to beat their tastes out of them. I just don't have much to add to the discussion.
All great points, particularly about the democratization and the different types of democratization.

When I made the point about patience for noobs, I was speaking to basically everyone but you. Your patience and generosity have been exemplary to us all imo. But I think we do need people like Matt to "beat their tastes out of them" as you say. He can lead be the "bad" cops and you the "good."
post #109 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post


We are not Apple, but we are tightening up our visuals. You'll see some fairly drastic improvements throughout the next few weeks.

Indeed, just made the reference because apple is generally successful for simple, well thought out interfaces. Looking forward to the improvements!
post #110 of 176
The new site was never slow for me, right from the first day. I tried it on Chrome tonight, and it's even better than Firefox.

I wasn't sure if it was just me, but it seemed like a lot of the complaining was coming from members with less than 100 posts/1 year's tenure. The only group that seems well-established and also not happy is the B & S regulars, mainly the big sellers.

I put up my first FS threads ever (save one) on the first day of the changeover. Not the greatest timing. I remain hopeful that when the new B & S rules get implemented, I will have better luck.

The biggest thing that occurred to me in the first days was that there were so many things that were just busted, not working right. In addition, there were so many programming decisions that seem to have been made by someone who had never used the site and figured out what it's all about. To me, that was a bigger problem than any philosophical issue about the change in direction. The whole problem with a 'back' click in B & S taking you back 3 pages instead of where you want to go was a perfect example. I am unsure how that got all the way through the development process, and then through the testing process which apparently involved some old-timers here. Anyone who has actually used B & S would have immediately said 'This is totally wrong, it can't work this way'. I'm a little surprised that this one hasn't been ironed out (unless it was fixed in the past 24 hours).

I agree that if the owners want to try to monetize the site, they should be free to do so and I would probably try to do the same thing.

I am definitely not scanning the FS threads like I used to do. Not even close. Don't yet know why, to be honest. 'Page back' problem might have something to do with it.
post #111 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

The new site was never slow for me, right from the first day.

How fast is your internet connection? If you don't mind me asking. Also you're in Canada, which probably helps.

The new SF was painfully slow for me here in China. Until I added all the third-party junk like Facebook to my hosts file. To stop the browser trying to access irrelevant sites that are unavailable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

I tried it on Chrome tonight, and it's even better than Firefox.

I find Chrome to be a great browser. Firefox is just too bloated now IMO.
post #112 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDT View Post


How fast is your internet connection? If you don't mind me asking. Also you're in Canada, which probably helps.
Hey Mike, my connection seems to average about 15 Mbps download. I'm sure that you and others were having legitimate problems with speeds - tons of people said they were. Yes, I am really liking the speed of Chrome. It's noticeably faster than Firefox. I've been using FF for so long that it will take a while to get it set up the way I like it but I think I'm going to give it a try.
post #113 of 176
B&S is being totally reformed. I rarely use it, so sadly I can't contribute much to that discussion.

But I am very glad that J, Fok, and Huddler team are listing to the community and working to change things. I am particularly happy about two things overall: site speed and eliminating dead space. I've seen some of the preliminary pages with the eliminated space, and they look just like the old SF to me.
post #114 of 176
Thanks for this post. I enjoyed your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post

Tides change in both directions, no? But teh noobs we will always have among us.

Imo, there are different types of noobs:
Some just lurk. And that's probably best.
Some ask questions. That's good too, particularly if the questions haven't been asked before and the questions aren't too numerous...
Some offer their own thoughts. Even this is fine as long as they don't offer it with vehemence and don't resist being educated with even more vehemence.

The latter group is the worst. But even they can change. Many among us were in that group. I think we need to correct them with patience. And no one has been better at that than you imo, Doc. As my favorite thinker, Bernie L, once said, "Each new group of noobs is an invasion of barbarians, and it's our job to civilize them." Well, it was something like that.

The vehemence of the last group of noobs drove a few of our best posters away (really just to lurk. They're still here.). But even these noobs have been learning. Some resisted it. And some don't want to acknowledge the debt they have to the people they helped drive away. But they've learned, and the world is better off for it.

One thing that may help us to have patience is to remember Plato's allegory of the cave. It compares education to being dragged out of a cave and being forced to turn to the light. It's a painful, confusing process. Particularly when we've been praised by our peers before this, as the cave story says and as happened to many of us before discovering SF. How often does a noob think, "Wow, I thought I knew it all before I came here!"?

Another thing that should help us to have patience is to remember that we were once there too. And we're all learning, no matter how much we know.

At it's best, SF is a big community of guys learning together. At it's worst it's a bunch of guys trying to show off. In reality, it's what we make of it. I think we can help it be its best by being patient with noobs and correct them politely. And we can't leave this to Doc, or to Matt, or to Manton. It has to be all of us--constantly learning and helping each other with patience and politeness.
post #115 of 176
I've pretty much stopped coming here altogether after the new design change.
post #116 of 176
I've been reading this site regularly since about 2003, mostly as a lurker although I've supported the advertisers. I still visit here just about daily but since the change I mostly just skim the thread titles and just read what looks the most interesting to me. I probably hang around here about five minutes a day now. Before the changes, it was typical for me to spend a lot more time reading through the threads. The visual clutter, unpleasant page design, and resulting latency issues from too many page elements now deter me from spending the time I used to spend here.
post #117 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcammer View Post

I still come, but I find the redesign very clumsy and really don't care for it at all.

I like the content, but the site is now a chore to navigate

EXACTLY. And the whorish Ads that don't go away.
post #118 of 176
I personally like the old format better.

myke
post #119 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

The new site was never slow for me, right from the first day. I tried it on Chrome tonight, and it's even better than Firefox.

I wasn't sure if it was just me, but it seemed like a lot of the complaining was coming from members with less than 100 posts/1 year's tenure. The only group that seems well-established and also not happy is the B & S regulars, mainly the big sellers.

I put up my first FS threads ever (save one) on the first day of the changeover. Not the greatest timing. I remain hopeful that when the new B & S rules get implemented, I will have better luck.

The biggest thing that occurred to me in the first days was that there were so many things that were just busted, not working right. In addition, there were so many programming decisions that seem to have been made by someone who had never used the site and figured out what it's all about. To me, that was a bigger problem than any philosophical issue about the change in direction. The whole problem with a 'back' click in B & S taking you back 3 pages instead of where you want to go was a perfect example. I am unsure how that got all the way through the development process, and then through the testing process which apparently involved some old-timers here. Anyone who has actually used B & S would have immediately said 'This is totally wrong, it can't work this way'. I'm a little surprised that this one hasn't been ironed out (unless it was fixed in the past 24 hours).

I agree that if the owners want to try to monetize the site, they should be free to do so and I would probably try to do the same thing.

I am definitely not scanning the FS threads like I used to do. Not even close. Don't yet know why, to be honest. 'Page back' problem might have something to do with it.

These issues will be fixed, within the next few weeks. Actually, the "back" problem should be fixed by next week, when we roll out the new B&S with the new B&S rules.
post #120 of 176
The issue is not how fast one's Internet speed is, it's operating system they are using. I have high-speed cable connections, but use Windows XP. Many (most?) forums have a high degree of ad content now, and XP just doesn't support it well. Christ, my computer is less than 5 years old. First, the website has to load, then all the ad content. Amazon and Huffington Post are almost unusable now, it takes forever to load all the ad content. I order a sample, A SAMPLE, of cologne from from fragrancenet.com, and now when I log onto a BMW forum, I get ad content from fragrancenet.com for that sample, which I didn't even like. I don't blame SF, or Amazon, or HuffPost, for wanting to make money, but until I upgrade to a Cray supercomputer, I am simply discouraged from visiting these websites. And it might be worth it to SF, HuffPost, Amazon, etc., the market will tell.
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