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New changes to B&S forum - Page 26  

post #376 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj2009 View Post

I can see some sellers leave the system because many people just hate to pay anything before they have a sale. A lower listing volume then in turn allows staying sellers to raise the initial prices, which turns away buyers, on and on. This is just a speculation. I feel that traffic volume is the single most important factor to drive "optimal" behaviors, but what do I know:D

I disagree with this. A lower listing volume sucks for the buyers, sure. As a buyer myself, I still check it frequently during the day to find that great deal on something I never knew I needed 5 minutes before I refreshed the screen. I have not purchased anything on B&S for a few weeks, but I (and others are too, Im sure) am getting hungry for a good deal. I want that killer piece on the cheap-ish. So, the longer sellers stay away, or make prices higher, the hungrier the buyers are going to get. And when it comes, there will be plenty of people waiting to pounce. I can guarantee you that.

The trick now is, to get sellers to list stuff more frequently, and at prices set to move based on a new system where drops are no longer required. Its just a matter of readjusting your brain. Its going to take some trial and error to hit that sweet spot.

Fok, maybe you can comment on the earliest days of B&S on the old forum if you get a second, and how it compares to the new one? Id be curious to hear any comparable stories (clearly not regarding technology or logistics, but pricing, buyers and sellers, etc.)
post #377 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj2009 View Post


Yes, SF provides a platform. You can also call it a market, just as you would call eBay, Amazon, Craigslist, etc. These markets run different systems. My point is while the market makers no doubt designed the systems to encourage "optimal" behaviors in their opinions, market participants often don't see things in the same way.

Speaking of the pay-to-bump system. I can see some sellers leave the system because many people just hate to pay anything before they have a sale. A lower listing volume then in turn allows staying sellers to raise the initial prices, which turns away buyers, on and on. This is just a speculation. I feel that traffic volume is the single most important factor to drive "optimal" behaviors, but what do I know:D

PS: I think the described changes represent a big improvement. Let's hope B&S turns around somewhat afterwards. I am still frightened by the thoughts of making small paypal payments from time to time. Are you sure there is no easy way to put in a token system?

If you have $100K or so, we can perfect a token system for you. The backend of such a system is really not easy to make. And to make it work in conjunction with an already complex system? Even harder.

I'd just like toe emphasize again that no one has to pay anything. You can list to your hearts content without paying a dime. You will still get to bump your listings once a week, even. How is this hard to understand?
post #378 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

Fok, maybe you can comment on the earliest days of B&S on the old forum if you get a second, and how it compares to the new one? Id be curious to hear any comparable stories (clearly not regarding technology or logistics, but pricing, buyers and sellers, etc.)

In the old days, there were no powersellers, and flipping was infrequent, and really, for pocket change. I think that I made a total of $500 over a bit of time to get a new shirt. Mostly, it was people getting rid of old stuff, or doing other people a favor. I actually remember selling something to RJman (a Ballyntyne sweater?) at cost + shipping + my T-ticket + a coffee. That was literally it. It was not a marketplace. It was more like, people doing each other favors. Aportnoy sold stuff essentially to get rid of it, at a loss, I am sure.

You can't compare SF in say 2004-2005 to SF in 2011. Completely different beast.
post #379 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post


You can't compare SF in say 2004-2005 to SF in 2011. Completely different beast.

Exactly.
post #380 of 549
My strong advice is to keep the "1/2 off" sale on b&s for... Ever. $5 is much more palatable than $10 to essentially have the ability to bump a thread every two days.
post #381 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

My strong advice is to keep the "1/2 off" sale on b&s for... Ever. $5 is much more palatable than $10 to essentially have the ability to bump a thread every two days.

We are going to even lower prices, and we'll see from there. The idea is that the bumps are palatable, but not so cheap that everyone and their mom buys them and get into bump wars. Essentially, the price of bumps will react to the market as well. When the market is optimized, the price of bumps would be set at a level where there is the most movement through the market.
post #382 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

j and Fok, can I ask about the rationale behind merging the WTB sections into the relevant FS sections? WTB has been one of my favourite parts of SF and I've managed to get some amazing deals there. I assume that people used to browse that section to see if there was a demand they might fill. Sure this isn't a programming issue? I'd much rather see WTB as a separate section as before. Another question is - if you keep things the way they are and I put a WTB thread in the FS section, do I pay to bump it?

We merged the WTB section in order to give it more visibility. It wasn't getting as much traffic as the other sections, by far. I guess you could pay to bump it, but that seems sort of absurd to me. I would just use the once every 7 days free bump.

I suppose that it is possible to have a separate WTB section, but it seems that it would fragment the market even more than we'd like. Ideally, we would have liked to just merge SW&D and MC, but we kept those separate for historical reasons.

You do realize that it's possible to just look at WTB, right? There are checkboxes at the far left, above the listings.
post #383 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

You do realize that it's possible to just look at WTB, right? There are checkboxes at the far left, above the listings.
Yeah, I saw that. The default state of the boxes is that 5 areas are checked - Free, For Trade, For Sale, Open and Wanted. I start to uncheck the 4 I don't want. I uncheck 'Free' and the software goes into action. The screen gets greyed out and the little 'Please Wait' box pops up. I faithfully do what I'm told, and wait. The process completes. Then I uncheck 'For Trade'... and the same process occurs. This process occurs for every box I uncheck. 4 times. You can see the problem there. I just get this sinking feeling that this is going to be one of those things that are endemic to this new platform and the answer is going to be 'We can't do anything about that'. I hope I'm wrong, because this will definitely serve to reduce even further the views of WTB.

In my view, if the idea was to increase traffic to the WTB ads by merging them with the FS ads, you guys are going to have to come up with a slightly different way to get the WTB ads to pop up as a group.

With regard to the bumping, when I was buying lots of Spurr jeans, replacing my old stuff, I used to bump my WTB thread a lot more frequently than every 7 days. I realize that there are more threads available on each page now so I will always be 'on the first page' but those top spots are still valuable for a reason, right? I will pay to have my ad up there as much as possible, so as to optimize my search for the goods I want.
post #384 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

Yeah, I saw that. The default state of the boxes is that 5 areas are checked - Free, For Trade, For Sale, Open and Wanted. I start to uncheck the 4 I don't want. I uncheck 'Free' and the software goes into action. The screen gets greyed out and the little 'Please Wait' box pops up. I faithfully do what I'm told, and wait. The process completes. Then I uncheck 'For Trade'... and the same process occurs. This process occurs for every box I uncheck. 4 times. You can see the problem there. I just get this sinking feeling that this is going to be one of those things that are endemic to this new platform and the answer is going to be 'We can't do anything about that'. I hope I'm wrong, because this will definitely serve to reduce even further the views of WTB.

In my view, if the idea was to increase traffic to the WTB ads by merging them with the FS ads, you guys are going to have to come up with a slightly different way to get the WTB ads to pop up as a group.

With regard to the bumping, when I was buying lots of Spurr jeans, replacing my old stuff, I used to bump my WTB thread a lot more frequently than every 7 days. I realize that there are more threads available on each page now so I will always be 'on the first page' but those top spots are still valuable for a reason, right? I will pay to have my ad up there as much as possible, so as to optimize my search for the goods I want.

Yes, we realize that the way the check boxes work right now is silly. It makes a lot more sense to have someone uncheck or check boxes, and then hit an "apply filter" or "submit" button. It's on the "list", Unfortunately, it's not one of the highest priorities on that list right now, since we have to get the B&S forum jumping first. But yes, I am aware of the problem, and it is on the list of things to fix. But then again, it might be super easy to fix. Anyway, it's in the list. I can ask the engineers to take a look.
post #385 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmith View Post

Quote:

 

As has been noted before, please take a moment to imagine the following. a guy goes to saks, buys those shoes or a tie and then sells it here. he has to pay gas, shipping, other supplies and his time, that should all be inclusive in the price and then a profit on top. a $45 tie on B&S that he paid $20 is not bad. also take into account if you can't buy that in your area or whatever then how does what he paid for it make a difference. finally, to quote spoo... to make a coke costs $0.17 and you still pay a buck for it.

 

on my google store (and when mega threads roll out here) i will be offering a price promise on my already low priced items (NWT Kiton Ties for $80!!!!! spam%5B1%5D.gif) if you can find the exact item i am selling anywhere else for cheaper i will try to beat the price, including shipping.

 

Have a good day, roll on the new B&S
 

 


+1000, and you and a few others have some great deals.

Not to be too tangential, when were Sak's ties $25 for cashmere? I am in NYC and I paid a lot more than that and it was during the sale. Maybe I can get some money back! And lower my prices on here, eventhough I purchased for myself, unemployment sucks, so I don't need them.

Spoo, great observation about NWT items. The market should expect higher prices with items such as those, because the cost to acquire them are higher. I think the prices for cleanouts are consistent with past sales. For example, I just sold 7 ties for $50. I see Brianpore and others doing the same.

Spoo and everyone else, I think B&S is moving in the right direction with the proposed changes.
Edited by gyasih - 7/26/11 at 4:20am
post #386 of 549

Slightly off-topic in terms of making specific changes, but a theoretical point I wanted to make, given the discussion about optimal pricing.

 

The idea that a market creates an optimal abstract price based solely on supply and demand is only true if the market is free of constraints.

 

In reality, every marketplace anywhere creates constraints as well as facilitating transactions. The optimal price of an item within that marketplace is not just a function of supply and demand, but it is also distorted by the inefficiences and constraints of the market's rules/structure. Point being: it's topsy-turvy logic to adjust rules (eg bump costs) to try to create an optimal price; the market won't work that way. All you'll do is create a fresh optimal price based on the new rule/cost structure.

 

I suggest forgetting about trying to create an optimal price, and instead focus on creating a marketplace with as few constraints as possible and let price sort itself out. The more complications added (bumps/visibility/bolding/etc, etc.), the harder it is to work out the best sales strategy and the more time and experimentation (and associated cost) is required to achieve it. It makes the process more inefficient. At the very least, I'd advise admins against continually trying to adjust prices to optimise the system unless there is a really glaringly obvious problem. Otherwise, set up the rules/costs, and let the sellers iteratively refine their strategies until they figure out the optimal technique within the marketplace.

post #387 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmith View Post

Quote:

 

As has been noted before, please take a moment to imagine the following. a guy goes to saks, buys those shoes or a tie and then sells it here. he has to pay gas, shipping, other supplies and his time, that should all be inclusive in the price and then a profit on top. a $45 tie on B&S that he paid $20 is not bad. also take into account if you can't buy that in your area or whatever then how does what he paid for it make a difference. finally, to quote spoo... to make a coke costs $0.17 and you still pay a buck for it.

 

on my google store (and when mega threads roll out here) i will be offering a price promise on my already low priced items (NWT Kiton Ties for $80!!!!! spam%5B1%5D.gif) if you can find the exact item i am selling anywhere else for cheaper i will try to beat the price, including shipping.

 

Have a good day, roll on the new B&S
 

 


I think the problem comes from the lack of room for margin. I don't begrudge anyone who sells in bulk his profit, as it's a shockingly large amount of work and financial risk. But these days, retail bargains aren't as plentiful as they used to be. A reasonable markup on a tie can push it back into the $80-$100 territory, which is the sale price for Drake's and full retail for Hober. That's going to make it hard to move on a forum where people grew accustomed to 75-90 percent off. Especially when the frenzy of the megathread is stripped away. That adrenaline rush goes a long way toward getting people to pull the trigger.

Will the return of the megathread restore the sales patterns of the past, or have buying habits changed now that people have been forced to confront the prices stuff commands on B&S? It will be interesting to see.

No matter how much we tinker with B&S, the lack of supply is going to keep prices higher than they were in the heyday.
post #388 of 549
yes, it might not be raining bargains, but there will always be great deals out there that can be captured by those willing to buy and sell in bulk and can still be translated to SF's B&S for a modest profit.

NMLC, Saks off 5th, Daffys, Riderboot, Soiffer Haskin, etc - tons of good deals abound, and can be translated to here once the megathreads return.
post #389 of 549
I like the bargains, so I hope there's plenty to go around. But I gave up bulk selling partly because I wasn't finding enough stuff to sell in bulk. Laziness won out, but if I were finding incredible deals, I'd probably be more willing to do the work. I'm not going to drop 50-60 percent of retail in hopes of finding the right guy willing to pay 70-80 percent. And that seems to be what a lot of the B&S sellers are doing. (Not speaking specifically of the megasellers.)

Even in the golden days I had plenty of stuff that wouldn't move at bargain basement prices. I've still got a bag full of Purple Label ties didn't move at a fraction of their retail.
post #390 of 549
post up the purple label in B&S
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