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New changes to B&S forum - Page 14  

post #196 of 549
Yeah, the new B&S is free of the bump or price cut, but listings get much fewer views. i doubt many people are selling as much as before. There is a chance that people will grow on the new B&S system. There is an equal chance that people will give up and never come back. That is the thing with internet age, people find some new websites to waste their time everyday.
post #197 of 549
I've been selling a few things the last few days and business is brisk. I'm happy.
post #198 of 549
someone brought up the fact that with the new format, since sellers are forced to list one item at a time, theres the issue of having the first page dominated by one sellers listings.
I just wanted to +1 this sentiment as its extremely frustrating.

and i want to +1 so much of whats already been said.
this new system is just so lousy.
its a PITA for sellers and its just no fun for buyers.

i really feel like Spoo has touched on the main issues with it. primarily, the fact that theres just no spark to it, no incentive to make people click through. whether or not that was due to knowing that an item was newly listed and you were "beating" everyone else, or not knowing the price until you clicked through, etc, or not having the sense of community the old forum had. the new setup just seems so hollow and impersonal.

please just bring back the old system. as dated as it may have seemed it seems to have fulfilled peoples needs as no one is really down with the way it is now.
post #199 of 549
The old b&s was much better
post #200 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

I posted this in TransMod and in the Forum Support threads, but I suppose just as relevant here - my views on the new B&S so far...


1. I feel the urgency is gone from a new listing. Mostly in fact because the page views are not prominent. Half the fun and key to grabbing fast sales on the old thread was getting in there first, and beating everyone else out. When you saw (well, when I saw) a thread with 1 page view, I knew it was fresh and the whole thread was filled with possibility.

2. The preview of the text IMO should be totally removed from the main page. If the seller puts most of the valid information in the first 100 characters of the post, I dont even bother clicking on it, because most of the information is visible. There could be tons more info in there, but if I get the "gist" of the item by seeing the preview, I wont even click on it and I could be missing something by default assumption.

3. The number of replies is missing from the main page, and I think this is hugely important. Even if replies do not warrant bumps, I dont feel inspired to reply to a sale post. Im pretty sure nobody else does either, because since the new system has been initiated, nobody really replies to a thread. There should be a reply count posted on the main page - a hot item or an item with a bad/good provenance will get attention, and more people will click. The more clicks, the more buys.

There are other niggles that I can get into, but these are the most prominent issues for me. I used to refresh B&S like 40x daily - seriously - because I knew the urgency was there to "get in" as soon as a thread was posted... thats 99% gone lately, but I think by correcting these three things, it would help a bit. Other sellers and buyer can chime in if I am speaking for myself or the masses, but I really think that these small fixes would go a long way.

+ 1000000
post #201 of 549
Hey, Spoo and Fok- let me put in a vote for rapid prototyping- try simple things and see if they stick.

I'm thinking a long design phase isn't what is called for at the moment.

...having said that- wow, the SW&D B&S is great this morning.
post #202 of 549
I agree w/Spoo and others - the thing looks boring, even though there's more info. It's looks like an eBay list or some collection site. Sometimes irritating, the old style was more fun.
post #203 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

While I also enjoyed the communal atmosphere of the old B&S, I wonder if we're at a tipping point where the forum is too large to keep that format viable. As a now retired seller, I can say it was hugely frustrating to list a thread and see it driven down the page by chatter, especially when that chatter amounted to jokes and nonsense and free bumps for friends. There were times when a thread would be gone from the front page in less than 30 minutes. So I'm torn. I liked reading those jokes, sometimes, but sometimes, as both buyer and seller, I wanted the B&S to be more businesslike.
I think this was a good comment that got buried too quickly. There are (or were, and will be again) great deals to be had here from people who mostly know (a) what they have and (b) how to measure it, something that can be difficult to find on ebay (38Rs with 19" shoulders?). But as someone who is looking for specific sizes to build up my wardrobe and doesn't have hours and hours a day to hit F5, the incredible speed and chatter of the old system could be extremely frustrating. It might not have been were searches such as "36r" or "10 e" possible, but they weren't, and still aren't. So I can see how the system could have been fun to old hands, but to people actually looking for something and not spending all their waking hours window-shopping it was pretty damn frustrating. I have hope that once the major bugs are worked out of the new system it will be a vast improvement.
post #204 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minarchist View Post

I think this was a good comment that got buried too quickly. There are (or were, and will be again) great deals to be had here from people who mostly know (a) what they have and (b) how to measure it, something that can be difficult to find on ebay (38Rs with 19" shoulders?). But as someone who is looking for specific sizes to build up my wardrobe and doesn't have hours and hours a day to hit F5, the incredible speed and chatter of the old system could be extremely frustrating. It might not have been were searches such as "36r" or "10 e" possible, but they weren't, and still aren't. So I can see how the system could have been fun to old hands, but to people actually looking for something and not spending all their waking hours window-shopping it was pretty damn frustrating. I have hope that once the major bugs are worked out of the new system it will be a vast improvement.

That's where Fit is King came in... Fast and frugal for those who need it that way, yet open, easy and very tight knit community for those that wanted that.

And that latter part is what's missing right now.
post #205 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post


That's where Fit is King came in... Fast and frugal for those who need it that way, yet open, easy and very tight knit community for those that wanted that.

And that latter part is what's missing right now.

Yeah, I thought it was/is great, but so few people were listing their items on it that it wasn't very helpful. Unless it's something that's "officially" integrated into the site, I have a hard time seeing everyone use it, regardless of how refined Onix is able to make it.
post #206 of 549
We hear your suggestions. I just want to touch on a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

While I also enjoyed the communal atmosphere of the old B&S, I wonder if we're at a tipping point where the forum is too large to keep that format viable. As a now retired seller, I can say it was hugely frustrating to list a thread and see it driven down the page by chatter, especially when that chatter amounted to jokes and nonsense and free bumps for friends. There were times when a thread would be gone from the front page in less than 30 minutes. So I'm torn. I liked reading those jokes, sometimes, but sometimes, as both buyer and seller, I wanted the B&S to be more businesslike.
I can't imagine dealing with it from a mod perspective. The constant complaints were tiring even to me.
Beyond that, by the end, the "epic" hyping had gotten out of hand. I'd click on a "mega hyper super thread" and find it filled with a bunch of thrift shop stuff. I'm kinda glad to see the end of that.
This isn't to say that the new B&S doesn't have problems, or that it can't be improved. But I do think there are advantages to a new approach, once we can work out the kinks.
The problem is that VB was never designed for any type of marketplace, and as such, it was very hostile to new users, and was a huge PITA to moderate.

That said, there are obviously issues with this new system. Mostly, I think that it is about the rules for what can be posted, etc.... The visual format will stay more or less the same, though perhaps with minor adjustments, because it is much more friendly to new eyes. And the bumps will be on a pay membership system, which actually allows sellers incentive to settle on a reasonable initial price based on how fast they want to sell it, and gives the seller a chance to make cost/benefit adjustments to prices (for example, if they pay to bump it 3 times, and nothing sells, maybe it's time to make a pricedrop coincide with a big price drop.)

Whether you realize it or not, there were loads of complaints about "cliques" bumping up one another's items. I have no issue with conversations in threads, but that these conversations bumped a sale was unfair to many sellers. In this new system, the seller can actually answer questions in the discussion which I feel is a huge improvement to the latest (seller must respond by PM) rule, which was forgotten on a very regular basis.

We do, however, want to bring the freewheeling atmosphere back to the B&S system, and there are ways to do this within the new system, by modifying the rules of the system. We do not have the technical capabilities of Ebay, obviously, but what we do is have a lot of latitude on are the rules of what can and cannot be posted, and the luxury that B&S is not really a source of revenue (despite what some conspiracy theorists have posited.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

I'm listening. But I'm in the middle of getting my buzz on so give me a day or so to respond.
Even better, post it. There is no tldr here. We are trying to fix things, and it needs to be an active discussion with all viewpoints visible.
Fun, isn't it smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenHero View Post

Pros
-Easier to browse for specific items
-Less chance you miss a good item
-Fewer people taking advantage of rules for bumps (exorbitant starting price, very small % price drops, vague descriptions that prompt buyer questions, etc.)
-Uploading photos from computer
Cons
-No incentive for seller to cut price
-No urgency on buyer's part
Effects
-Fewer good deals
-Less incentive to closely follow new threads & fewer page views
-Slow turnover for merchandise
-Accumulation of overpriced junk

The new system has basically decreased sellers' risk, and maximized the ceiling of their sale prices, but because of that, they are going to be selling to a much smaller base of buyers who are willing to put up with it. It's a step backwards IMO.
We want to keep the pros, and ditch the cons. I am seriously entertaining changing the rules and fee structure, so that we will have, effectively, a better organized "bazaar". Some proposals are to:
a) Allow multiple items within a same category will hopefully make browsing easier, while encouraging people to enter the listings, since there may be a lot there that we just can't see, encouraging more buyer activity.
b) Change the enhanced user groups to be about bumping and highting only, not listing numbers - the projected effect is that unrealistically high listing prices would be discouraged, since if you do not list at a saleable price, your listing will easily be lost, and you will have to pay for a bump, at which point, it would incentivize a significant price drop, because you don't want to have to pay again. It was also allow powersellrs to get more out of a pricedrop (if you have 50 items in your thread, each at $200+, paying $10 for a bump might seem worthwhile, but you'd probably want to drop prices more quickly in order to not have to do this too many times.

You guys should remember that the 5% pricedrop is actually a fairly new rule (about 18 months - Doc and others will remember that that was not a long time featured of B&S) and that the B&S system worked fine before then. Also, in addition to creating a huge moderation load (apparently, people don't always know how to calculate a 5% discount. Also, the price drop had the unintended consequence of making people inflate initial prices to account for price drops. The new system would remove this effect.
post #207 of 549
the price drops were great incentives to get product moved, I liked the 5% drop with bumps. please keep this.

I also liked if someone discussed your item, it got bumped. It kept hot sellers/ discussion points at the top of the forum. Very good learning experience for all.
post #208 of 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post

the price drops were great incentives to get product moved, I liked the 5% drop with bumps. please keep this.

I also liked if someone discussed your item, it got bumped. It kept hot sellers/ discussion points at the top of the forum. Very good learning experience for all.

I'm afraid that neither of these are likely to be implemented. The second part, for sure, is gone. Some people liked it, but it was also extremely unpopular. Like I said, it was nice for some sellers, but many sellers, new or old, were extremely turned off by this. We want to make this system useful for only and new sellers and buyers alike.

Re. the first point, behind the scenes, there were literally hundreds of complaints about this, whether that people where gaming the system, or that it was an artificial "race to the bottom". I think that the pay to bump system will be the new way to incentivize price drops. If you have to pay $10 a bump, you would like your item to sell, not have it rapidly. We could make it $50 a bump, or even higher. The fee structure is a real-time experiment to make the market work faster. It's been proven to work in many economic experiments, but it nearly always requires a significant amount of tuning.
post #209 of 549
$50 per bump sounds excessive, as does $10... If an item is $50, unless you are bumping an entire thread with many items, and it costs $10 per bump, that's quite high.
post #210 of 549

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

I'm afraid that neither of these are likely to be implemented. The second part, for sure, is gone. Some people liked it, but it was also extremely unpopular. Like I said, it was nice for some sellers, but many sellers, new or old, were extremely turned off by this. We want to make this system useful for only and new sellers and buyers alike.

Re. the first point, behind the scenes, there were literally hundreds of complaints about this, whether that people where gaming the system, or that it was an artificial "race to the bottom". I think that the pay to bump system will be the new way to incentivize price drops. If you have to pay $10 a bump, you would like your item to sell, not have it rapidly. We could make it $50 a bump, or even higher. The fee structure is a real-time experiment to make the market work faster. It's been proven to work in many economic experiments, but it nearly always requires a significant amount of tuning.


i was waiting for some admin input in this thread, thanks.

 

i would like to think that the cost of a bump would be in competition with or beat eBay fees... does that make sense?

 

if not i can't see myself ever selling something here again. for a few reasons:

 

1) people here like the item really well explained with tons of pictures and sometimes a thread could be posted for a week but its pointless because there are no measurements, i always try to have the "perfect" thread but someone will always catch you out. ~ This never happens on ebay, you can post crappy pics barely any description and sell your item for 10x what you get here....

2) there are more people visiting ebay, true they don't all look for Kiton ties but eventually someone will pull the trigger if its cheap enough and it cost me less to list than to bump it here.

i'm sure there are more...

 

this is the best place to sell stuff on the internet and you know what, i find myself looking to buy things specifically that suit the people on this site not just because it has a Kiton label because i like the community and i feel that since i have learned so much here why not give great deals to my fellow SFers. 

 

i'm looking forward to an improved B&S very soon icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

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