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Exam cheaters... - Page 5

post #61 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagonesque
Wow, I'm terribly sorry that I struck such a nerve with you Mr Rogers. I'd love to take the time to reply to your well written flames, but I'll wait a few years for you to learn to reply without resorting to calling the other party a punk, little girl, or questioning the size of my testicles.


YOU asked US what we thought of your decision to turn this chick in. I say it was a "punk move" and now you are all upset again.

I expect your next move to be an email to the admins, informing them of my hurtful behavior.

MrR
post #62 of 163
Interesting situation at a local university here: Tutor accidentally leaks exam key to UBC biology students http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...7-748cbacc9154 Now, if you were one of those students doing the last-minute studying and you saw the answers pop up, would you give into temptation, seeing how the answers have been served to you on a virtual silver platter? Or would you do it because you know other students would do the same, and you HAVE to in order to keep a level playing field? If I were a student like Mr. Le as in the article, and this was in the Business Faculty (which is curved), I'd be outraged at the negligence of the TA.
post #63 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Your logic is flawed.

Perhaps the girl in question always studied hard and had never even considered cheating before this exam. Maybe the night before her boyfriend dumped her, and her parents both went into the hospital. She asked for an extension but one was not granted. She tried desperately to concentrate during the wee morning hours before the exam but was unable to accomplish any decent studying. She promised herself to cheat only this one time and go to confession straight after the exam. By your logic, behaviors that may have a negative impact on you are permissible under certain circumstances.

As i've said before in this thread, the poster should have put his head down and not sung to the TA like a little girl. Noone said life was fair.


MrR
"Noone said life was fair." What kind of ridiculous argument is that? Nobody said she could cheat, either Nobody said you'd get to keep all the money you earn, so why not give us all your banking information and PIN number?
Someone did say that exams would be conducted fairly when they established the rules governing them. People who cheat or steal almost always have some rationalization for it. If you're going to go down that road, there's no point in having rules or laws at all. The girl is the one who chose to take the risk of cheating, so directing indignation toward someone who identifies and reports her cheating rather than her is absurd.
post #64 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonick
Interesting situation at a local university here:

Now, if you were one of those students doing the last-minute studying and you saw the answers pop up, would you give into temptation, seeing how the answers have been served to you on a virtual silver platter?


I was once taking a take-home final in an advanced mathematics course. Some of the questions were the same as, or similar to, the "even" numbered questions in the text, for which answers are not provided.

The "odd" answers were provided on the publisher's website, and we were provided a link that ended in SSM -- I assumed it meant Student Solutions Manual. While working on my final, I, on a lark, changed the URL to end in ISM -- wondering if that would be Instructor's Solutions Manual. What do you know, it worked and bypassed the password on the frontpage. Each chapter's solutions were available to me to download. I was at home, so my computer use couldn't be tracked by the University, though I could have gone, anonymously, to a county library to use the Web if I was sufficiently paranoid.

I didn't download any of them. I got a B+. I doubt if any of my colleagues figured it out. The text was outdated and already replaced, so I didn't report the security hole. Am I now a pinko?

Regards,
Huntsman
post #65 of 163
This has been one of the most telling threads ever on SF, not only of the individuals that tolerate and rationalize this demonstrative behavior but of those that defend the age old ideals of honor and integrity.

Liberty Ship and lawyerdad excellent posts.
post #66 of 163
Somewhere during this thread the distinction was lost between agreeing that cheating is ok and thinking that it is one's responsibility to report it. I absolutely do not agree with cheating, but I also don't think its my responsibility to actively police others.

I'm sure that those on their soapbox will degrade me for my belief's, however, i'm sure they themselves engage in such behavior, at least to some degree, regularly, without a second thought.

MrR

(I'm sorry, but I can't possibly take a lawyers lecture RE: cheating seriously)
post #67 of 163
You may not believe it to be yours but your utter contempt for those that do tells a lot about your character.
post #68 of 163
"utter contempt" ????

Relax with the drama... I said it was a punk move, I didn't wish a terminal illness on the guy. My character is at least consistent, compared to the poster who went out of his way to squeel on his classmate and later contend that he didn't want to see her kicked out on account of his actions.

MrR
post #69 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Somewhere during this thread the distinction was lost between agreeing that cheating is ok and thinking that it is one's responsibility to report it. I absolutely do not agree with cheating, but I also don't think its my responsibility to actively police others.
The distinction might have been lost when you characterized someone who actually reported a cheater as a punk, even though the cheating (actually or potentially) affected the reporting party. I don't think anyone here is saying that you have to go out of your way to find and eliminate all cheating everywhere, but isn't it kind of stupid not to report cheating when you see it *and* it affects you? And can't we at least agree that unless someone is actually willing to report it on occasion, there's no risk?

Quote:
I'm sure that those on their soapbox will degrade me for my belief's, however, i'm sure they themselves engage in such behavior, at least to some degree, regularly, without a second thought.
If you're talking about cheating, I disagree, but if the belief makes you feel better... If you're talking about not reporting it whenever and wherever it occurs, it's certainly possible, even probable. But that doesn't diminish the force of the arguments made.

Quote:
(I'm sorry, but I can't possibly take a lawyers lecture RE: cheating seriously)
Nice cheap shot.
post #70 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyto
isn't it kind of stupid not to report cheating when you see it *and* it affects you? And can't we at least agree that unless someone is actually willing to report it on occasion, there's no risk?


I've stated very clearly, many times now, that I mind my own business and make excellent grades on my own merit, without going out of my way to call out others. Perhaps many years down the road when the said "cheater" begins to work in the real world, their knowledge will be far below my own, thus their cheating will have finally caught up with them. Is justice not served in this manner?

The risk taken is being caught by administration; the people whose responsibility it is to catch cheaters.

MrR
post #71 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyto
If you're talking about cheating, I disagree, but if the belief makes you feel better... If you're talking about not reporting it whenever and wherever it occurs, it's certainly possible, even probable. But that doesn't diminish the force of the arguments made.
Perhaps not, but I do question the credibility of those making such static claims. I'm not contending that everyone who doesn't share my opinion cheats on their taxes and swindles their way through life, however, I find the high moral position of some posters to be unrealistic; everyone cheats a little, at some point in their lives. The girl in class was in the wrong to cheat on her exam, but few can say they have never made such transgressions at some point in their lives, especially lawyers. MrR
post #72 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
I've stated very clearly, many times now, that I mind my own business and make excellent grades on my own merit, without going out of my way to call out others.
(1) Keep up the hard work, and congratulations; (2) you're fortunate--some of the cheating I saw in college would have assured that several people didn't even have the opportunity to score well (e.g., people moving pins on dissected animals on practical exams, so that everyone after him would identify the wrong structures).

Quote:
Perhaps many years down the road when the said "cheater" begins to work in the real world, their knowledge will be far below my own, thus their cheating will have finally caught up with them. Is justice not served in this manner?
Not necessarily: justice is still denied to the student who actually put in the work, but was beat out of the curve by one or more cheaters. Depending on the choice of career and other factors, the effect could be substantial.

Quote:
The risk taken is being caught by administration; the people whose responsibility it is to catch cheaters.
I think the statistics pretty well demonstrate that the administration could use some help in this respect; and anyway, isn't there at least some responsibility shared by members of a civilized society to provide some assistance here? I know that this comparison is a bit hyperbolic, but I keep flashing back to that scumbag college student who did and said nothing while his friend lured a small child into a Vegas casino bathroom, then raped and killed her (he said that it wasn't "any of his business."). Isn't this the road we stagger toward when we abdicate any responsibility for maintaining an ethical or lawful standard?
post #73 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyto
I know that this comparison is a bit hyperbolic, but I keep flashing back to that scumbag college student who did and said nothing while his friend lured a small child into a Vegas casino bathroom, then raped and killed her (he said that it wasn't "any of his business."). Isn't this the road we stagger toward when we abdicate any responsibility for maintaining an ethical or lawful standard?


Whether or not we as a society are headed in that direction is not indicident of students hiding cheat sheets in a college classroom. That being said, while I will let my fellow man slide when I suspect underhanded classroom behavior, I will however call attention to adults luring strange children into casino restrooms.

Does that make me a hypocrit?

Seriously though, I think I've contributed all I can to this thread. My advice to the poster is to work hard enough to ensure that you are always at the top of the curve, thus virtually unaffected by others malicious behavior. Cheating is a way of life for some and someting we are bound to run into time and time again in school and our careers thereafter. For those who live by the highest moral codes, I applaud you, and hope the satisfaction you get by calling attention to others transgressions is fulfilling.

MrR
post #74 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
I mind my own business and make excellent grades on my own merit, without going out of my way to call out others.
Even if you do well yourself, many classes in college and university are curved, so their marks directly affect your grades.

Having a small group of students cheating could mean the difference between an A and an A+, and perhaps the difference between a scholarship worth a couple thousand dollars (and a great relief to a student loan), or nothing.
post #75 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Whether or not we as a society are headed in that direction is not indicident of students hiding cheat sheets in a college classroom. That being said, while I will let my fellow man slide when I suspect underhanded classroom behavior, I will however call attention to adults luring strange children into casino restrooms.

Does that make me a hypocrit?
No, it doesn't make you a hypocrite--there is obviously a qualitative difference between molestation and murder and cheat sheets--but the mindset that allows cheat sheets leads to other mischief, and worse.

Quote:
For those who live by the highest moral codes, I applaud you, and hope the satisfaction you get by calling attention to others transgressions is fulfilling.
You're missing the point: we (or at least I) got no satisfaction from reporting the incident we reported (the pins on the bio exam)--I just wanted a shot at a decent grade, a shot that I simply didn't have, no matter how well I knew the material, when the conditions of the exam had been altered. Did that make me a punk?
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