Exam cheaters... - Page 3

Then why did you out her??

Not trying to be a dick but if your gonna go sniffing around for whatever reason your rationale should at least be consistent.

MrR

Well, it is a pathetic opinion.

At my soon-to-be-alma, cheating is pretty much ubiquitous: on projects, on homework, on exams. I've seen the stack of notes in the Ti-89 case, cell phone calls to people in finals, texts left in the john that are consulted, of course much programming of calculators, texting, and just plain passing around solutions.

I know that some of these people have graduated with (undeserved) honors. I know that some of them have won prizes with financial benefits (in addition to the intangibles). Especially egregious are those that have gotten a free semester due to their 'high' academic performance. I love to learn, especially outside of my discipline, and I would cut off an appendage for a free semester, yet these people who get it dishonestly then go and screw it away. Academic scholarships ride on grades, so these people screw us out of money, too.

So yeah, cheaters individually have a significant affect on me personally, and that is my business. If they are screwing me (whether they think about it or not), why should I give a flying rat if they get screwed, or better yet, expelled?

I have never ratted out an individual, but I have ratted out a whole class, after it was over. The Prof told me he felt as if he'd been raped, because he trusted his students to treat him with a little respect. But of course they couldn't give a crap about him, though he was an exceptional Professor.

Cheaters are scum.

Sincere regards,
Huntsman

I cannot say anything about China or the rest of Europe, but that is blatantly untrue for France at least. A lot of the French system relies on "concours" and not "examens" (what are the English words for that? the second is "exam", what is the first?). The difference is that in an exam students will be graded and there is a passing grade. In a "concours", students are graded and then a fixed number pass (say the top 20 students). You can hardly get more competition-inducing than that system... When I arrived at the University of Chicago the head of the department actually gave instructions to us lecturers of European origin (particularly the French). The subject? Grade perception in the US. Basically we were told to inflate our grades a lot, and then some. The first exam I graded, I was very generous by French standard. Everybody got "D" or more, which means everybody was passing. Still I had students actually in tears. I then used the advice I had been given and inflated my grades again.

Huntsman, you may believe its pathetic but its a real one. There are numerable times in our lives when people do bad things that directly or indirectly affect us yet we do not "rat" them out. For example, When you're driving on the highway [no doubt] at the speed limit do you call the cops everytime someone passes you (obviously over the speed limit)? They're speeding affects your safety. What about Jay walkers? Littering? I can go on. I'm sorry that you got screwed out of money by some cheater but if you think about it, them risking a failing grade or worse consequences for their pretty ridiculous cheating methods (and ridicolous test management by the professors - bathroom breaks and cell phone calls during tests??) is rewarded by the financial reward.

Kind regards,
Jodum5

Well, the 'risk' of cheating is somewhat lessened when they know that many of their fellow students subscribe to some bizarre code of 'honor' that dictates that it's somehow more 'noble' to let them get away with cheating.

Reporting academic cheating is "ratting someone out"? Alert the military academies that they're training a bunch of dishonorable pussies -- I'm sure they'd be grateful for the insight.

This is what happens when people get their ethical grounding from gangster movies.

So true. Whenever I give a "C" I have to spend later almost an hour per student for email exchanges and meetings to explain the student how come he/she, who failed each and every test, got a mere "C".
With this kind of a system - I am not sure why people even cheat. I have seen courses, with 60 studets, and 60% "A"'s. As they say, "only in America".

That is the most fucked-up logic ever. Now I'm not really a moral person. I don't really care if people cheat and I certainly wouldn't rat them out, except if I thought it would affect me. I was in a managerial econmics class where some students managed to get a copy of an old exam and the questions didn't change for ours. About half of the class was done in 20 minutes and get high 90s. I sent an anonymous email but since there was no proof, the professor let the grades stand. In a university setting, where the department dictates that only a certain % can get As Bs or Cs, he should have cancelled the results and given us a re-write with new questions. He was too lazy though and let the marks stand.

I think that it is idiotic not to help out people when they ask for your help. I have found myself helping people in law school quite a bit, but then they always do something to help you afterward, or someone else will. By helping out people a bit, tons of others have been giving me the notes they took in class, showing me some little details that they found in a law or a case law, etc. This has helped me greatly and my grades would probably be lower had I not helped these people. Heck, the day before a contract law exam, I spent over 4 hours explaining some stuff to an asian girl; someone then explained one of the things better than I could, gave me some of his stuff, and I wound up with an A+ because of it.

Helping people won't hurt you.

Now, denunciation is... well, I can't do that. I can't really blame you for doing so because in many ways you are totally right. It is just against my own code of honor, I guess. Those who get caught totally deserve what's coming to them though.

I think the only time you can really cheat is on projects and tests. I don't think homework should count for hardly anything because people just copy off each other. I see no problem with copying homework or learning by example but when it is test time, it is time to see what you can do. Those people who cheat get higher GPAs and therefore will be more likely to get a job. I have seen TONS of asian girls in engineering with 3.5+ GPA who couldn't program their way out of a box and businesses only look at GPA for entry-level engineering positions. In the computer labs it is quite common for even the butt ugly girls to flirt with the socially-inept nerdy guys to get the answers to projects.

Wow, GQ... you do know that the rewrite would've been harder and would've screwed not only yourself but the others that did not cheat? That's an f-ed up thing to do. Especially since you state that you dont care if people cheat, so how was it your business to report it? At least be honest and say that you are above reproach and would report all screw ups if given the chance. If their cheating amounted to them copying your paper or project obviously you report them because your getting screwed, but they took a test and passed it? What's it to you?

A high GPA may just get you an interview. I've met tons of book smart people (or maybe they were those evil dirty cheaters, I dont know) who hadn't a clue how to write a resume or handle an interview.

I'm surprised at some of the responses here. When did cheating become acceptable behavior? At what point in life does the person cheating in coursework or on an exam decide to stop cheating? Cheat your employer? Maybe take some office supplies home? Do some outside work on company time? Cheat on your taxes? Cheat on your spouse? Right is right; wrong is wrong. The only question I'd have is whether or not to turn in the cheater. And I'm a little ashamed of myself for even having a question about that.

You're dealing with the illegal download generation.
Is your face blue yet?

Oh, I had no doubt that it was your real opinion. Sorry about the pathetic -- was a little dig for the earlier prick.


Rarely are there people who are in a priviledged position who do inappropriate things that have strong negative consequences for me. None of your examples qualify, anyway, you're trying to reduce it to the absurd, and I'd call for a little moderation.

If speeders are driving decently they're fine with me -- I subscribe to the European dictum of driving right. I even like to give 'most' people who are driving badly or really speeding a pass -- I don't know what is going on in their lives that day, and I remember a day I flew home for a medical emergency. I also remember days I wasn't on form and maybe was teetering on unsafe.

I would call the cops on some of the obviously drunk or stoned drivers I've seen as they are a direct threat to me and others, which is closer to cheating than speeding, though obviously this is apples and oranges, I'm just tryng to stay in your schema.

Jay walkers? You're kidding me. Most of the time they look, so as not to affect me, and if they don't they've probably just screwed up. You can't cheat in such a way as to not affect others, nor can you do it by accident.

Litter? Yeah, that makes me suffer financial loss, puts me in an inferior position on paper for a job/scholarship, and give the litterbug some serious rewards.
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So, if by cheating blatantly or by taking advantage of a Prof who tries to respect them should only be punished by the risk they accept in the action, please tell me why that doesn't justify skimming some funds off an employer? They risk being fired, and if their employer isn't watching them like a hawk, well it's the firm's lookout!

As for the test management -- I agree that some of the things they get away with is ridiculous. But I don't like feeling like a locked-down criminal in an exam, either. I know from speaking with faculty that they don't want to do that, and hope that the students will have a modicum of decency. I get it sometimes when the Prof's really a prick, but some of these guys are really great and bend over backward to get screwed by their students.


Likewise,
Huntsman