Advice about a bizarre rental situation in NYC - Page 2

Originally Posted by CouttsClient 

Originally Posted by harvey_birdman 


Generally it is illegal to retain a security deposit for back rent. Often tenants can recover double damages if a landlord tries to do something like that.

Unfortunately OP is from Canada where apparently they have yet to begin the process of transcribing human thoughts and words into a written language. Without a written contract OP is SOL.

Originally Posted by tj100 


I'll give you the landlord's side of it:

I put my spare bedroom up for rent on Craigslist for $1,400 a month, and some Canadian jumps on it, says he's moving to NYC next week, wants the place, moving in next thursday. Dude sends me $1,400 as a deposit, and everything's good. The day before he's supposed to move in, he calls and says that he won't be arriving tomorrow because he got stopped at the border with some visa issue (terrorist?) - but he's coming soon. On Monday, he gets turned away from the border again (either a terrorist or a massive flake), but he'll be here next week. This goes on and on. A month goes by, dude shows no sign of arriving (it's always going to be 'next week'). It's a sweet apartment, so I can rent it in a heartbeat to somebody else. I guess I'll ask for July rent, and if he wants to pay, that's cool, but otherwise, I'm taking that asshole's deposit and renting it to somebody else.

Now he wants his deposit back? I understand that he's pissed that he paid for a place that he didn't get to live in, that sucks. But I paid the mortgage on his bedroom whether he stayed there or not. This is exactly why I asked for a deposit from some random foreign flake.

Originally Posted by miran 




hahah...you are thinking like us, when I was a kid. I was this situation as a 21-year old in college, with another 21-year old who thought he could have a huge apartment for himself while the poor sod who was subletting and had paid for the other room was stuck in Holland and unable to return to the US!

of course you would rent it to someone else but:
1. the poor sod is not an "asshole", morally or legally
2. in this situation, as a responsible, mature and honest adult, you immediately smell problems, return the deposit, cancel the agreement unilaterally and rent to someone else. this is so easy to do, given nothing is signed yet.

this is exactly the situation i was in--two guys renting a apartment, lease in A's name, B is other renter formally subrenting through A, Lease and bills are in A's name. B needs to leave and finds a sublet, B leaves a few days before sublet should arrive, Sublet cannot arrive from Holland, sublet has paid deposit to B and B has given to A. B is off to intern for World Bank in Philippines, Sublet is stuck in Holland, Sublet's deposit is being used by A as B's share of the rent for the next month while A has the whole apartment to himself and deliberately does nothing to find another sublet, does not contact B. A keeps quiet, B is off in the Philippines, what is the Sublet to do?

Originally Posted by JohnGalt 


B is "formally subrenting" - it is completely his responsibility.

You talk about being "a responsible, mature and honest adult" - part of that is realizing you got yourself into a bind and may have to pay to get out of it. People don't hand money back because people are stuck somewhere or off to intern.

Originally Posted by miran 



hahaha...of course people don't hand it back. That's why a court order makes them hand it back.

Originally Posted by miran 


1. the poor sod is not an "asshole", morally or legally

Originally Posted by Bilzario 

I am a Canadian. I was supposed to move to NYC on June 12th.

I found an apartment share through Craigslist on June 6th. Person renting the apartment (two person share) is an older person. A younger woman answered my craigslist message. I talked to the older person, seemed a good fit, agreed to move on june 12th.

Bank wired a $1400 deposit the next day.

On June 11th, my Visa is still not approved, so I cannot move yet to NYC.
I let the person know of my situation, says no problem, let me know when you are coming.


Ditto, again June 16th.

June 22nd, Visa arrives but due to administration mistakes, it is incorrect and I am denied entry at the border (well, I can enter as a tourist, just not get my work permit). I go back to sort it out.
I let the person know, says no problem, let me know.

I wait and wait for my visa to be resolved.

July 10--Older person says bank wire me July rent, or I have to get another renter!


My visa is not resolved, and my start/entry date is all screwed up, pushed to end of August.

I tell the older person "Fine, sorry for the mess, can you return my deposit?"

PErson says "you used it up in June!"

I say can you give me half the deposit back?

Person tells me to fuck off...hangs up. Not answering my phone calls or e-mails.

During any of this time, there was no written (or verbal) rental agreement or contract, or anything signed. There is still nothing.


What are my options now? Are there ways for me to legally get my money back?



As an aside, who has the moral right on his side in this mess?

Originally Posted by Pliny 


maybe a misconception about what constitutes an agreement.
In most common law jurisdictions (US, UK, Canada etc) Offer + Acceptance + Consideration = Contract

Their advert in CL was what's known as an 'invitaton to treat'.
You then contacted them and made an offer i.e. 'I'll take the place from this date for $x per wk/ft/month' and they said 'yes'. You sent them $s - that's your consideration, and Bingo, contract. Kicker is you're liable to compensate them for their reasonable losses as a result of your failure to fulfil i.e. the rent they would have received had you moved in + incidentals like further advertising costs.

sorry dude, but you prob got off lightly. Had the place remained vacant for some time because they legitimately couldn't get another tenant you would have been up for big $s.
soFor all you know your debt could still be accruing. They won't pursue you tho cos in Canada you out of NY jurisdiction.
It's possible that they let the place before your $1400 in deposit (which in terms of the contract would be considered rent) had run out, but then how would you ever know unless you went there and asked the new tenant?.
FWIW there's often some kind of residential tenancy advice bureau u can contact for low $s and could be worth checking out. try
calling the Office of the AG
(212) 416-800
Moral is verbal contracts are binding, tho sometimes difficult to enforce . cheers

Originally Posted by CouttsClient 


IIRC...Real Estate contracts must be written and verbal agreements aren't even heard in court.

So yeah...SOL

Originally Posted by Pliny 


no - verbal residential tenancy contracts in NY are binding - u need to check the legislation

Originally Posted by CouttsClient 


Well that's just stupid.