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Leffot + EG complaint - Page 16

post #226 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by luftvier View Post

Can we move this to DT yet? confused.gif

It would be totally inappropriate to move this to DT. MC has always been the forum to discuss experiences with different vendors.
post #227 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mute View Post

This isn't going to stop me from buying EG. Although I probably won't shop at Leffot, since I have access to Leather Soul Hawaii's BH branch, I think Leffot didn't do anything wrong. If you had something made exclusively for you, you have every right to protect its exclusivity.

If you ever plan on getting Corthay shoes in America you don't really have much choice but to go to Leffot. There are a few Euro internet retailors from which you can buy from but at current FX rates, shipping, etc, Leffot is the way to go.
post #228 of 248
did this whole tsuris even actually happen? OP hasn't added anything to his report of this shocking incident since Sunday morning.
post #229 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr monty View Post




Nick, this is far from being fair. You did alot of assuming, maybe, and speculation to paint a negative view of the OP? You don't do repair work for Leffot?

Nick didn't put a finger on a brush - OP painted himself into a corner and can't find a way out. As to Nick's assumptions - he's as well informed as anyone, and better than most, but his business isn't selling new shoes.
post #230 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr monty View Post




Nick, this is far from being fair. You did alot of assuming, maybe, and speculation to paint a negative view of the OP? You don't do repair work for Leffot?


That's irrelevant.
But since you asked, I do work and have relationships with the highest regarded and respected shoe companies and establishments here on SF. As a serious contributor to the forum, it's my commitment to be fair and honest to all parties, of course, including consumers equally.
Comments were made biased on assumptions by a poster. This provoked me to look at it differently. What if his assumptions were incorrect? And, I don't know. If we are being honest why should anybody be condeemed for those assumptions? You wouldn't like it if it happened to you. I simply raised some questions and added other assumptions based on fair possibilities. I clearly asked the poster what evidence he had to qualify his statements and posting his position. It's up to him if he so chooses. Personally, I hope he responds.
Now, you consider this as being unfair? Why? Feel free to come knocking on my door and explain. I'm very approachable.

Regarding the OP....WADR, know-body is perfect. If you are, you were heavily blessed. Mistakes happen. When a mistake is made there are several ways of seeking a remedy. One is certainly announcing on the internet as "Extra, Extra, Read All About It". Then blast it. Another way is to contact the party/s and say: Here's the what happened. Can we work this out? Meaning, being covert and showing respect in order to resolve the problem.

My guess is, if the OP was more reserved in his approach, rather than using a hammer, he would have been happy with the solution.
Not only that but, when he had the time maybe he would have posted pics of his "special" shoes.

In my way of thinking, this could have all been avoided without anybody getting a bloody nose.
post #231 of 248
Thread Starter 
Holy crap! This is still going on?

I posted here to have a voice as being the customer, you can sometimes get screwed without any advocate. Since I know that Leffot reads this forum but wasn't man enough to contact me directly, this was my indirect way of filing a complaint where the public can see it. Vindictive? Perhaps, but so was canceling my order. I have not been on here as I have been busy with work and hobbies as mentioned. I did not go back to read all 16 pages but from what I did read, I wanted to clarify a few things:
  • I don't build racecars for a living, that is just a hobby, I actually build windturbines (since that was brought up) and I have been traveling a lot lately and have not had time to keep up with SF
  • I did not assume that Leffot read this forum, that was told to me via email which I cut and pasted into my original post. The only modification is that I took out the sender's name. So, those who assumed that I assumed, please go back and read the original post
  • Since shoe trees were a hotly debated subject I will post what EG said regarding MTM shoes: "All MTM shoes come with shoe trees". These shoes are considered a MTM order. EG's cost also included shipping but not duties
  • I understand that the profit from the shoes was supposed to go to Japan. However, I already donated to Japan and I don't need to do that again right now.

So, you can go back to saying what an ass I am, but I probably won't read it.
post #232 of 248
This thread has not ended because people like to have the last word. We are all bias and make a reasonable amount of assumptions, there will be no accepted resolve to this thread. How about we just let a dead horse rest in peace people?
Edited by JubeiSpiegel - 7/22/11 at 7:03am
post #233 of 248
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post



That's irrelevant.
But since you asked, I do work and have relationships with the highest regarded and respected shoe companies and establishments here on SF. As a serious contributor to the forum, it's my commitment to be fair and honest to all parties, of course, including consumers equally.
Comments were made biased on assumptions by a poster. This provoked me to look at it differently. What if his assumptions were incorrect? And, I don't know. If we are being honest why should anybody be condeemed for those assumptions? You wouldn't like it if it happened to you. I simply raised some questions and added other assumptions based on fair possibilities. I clearly asked the poster what evidence he had to qualify his statements and posting his position. It's up to him if he so chooses. Personally, I hope he responds.
Now, you consider this as being unfair? Why? Feel free to come knocking on my door and explain. I'm very approachable.

Regarding the OP....WADR, know-body is perfect. If you are, you were heavily blessed. Mistakes happen. When a mistake is made there are several ways of seeking a remedy. One is certainly announcing on the internet as "Extra, Extra, Read All About It". Then blast it. Another way is to contact the party/s and say: Here's the what happened. Can we work this out? Meaning, being covert and showing respect in order to resolve the problem.

My guess is, if the OP was more reserved in his approach, rather than using a hammer, he would have been happy with the solution.
Not only that but, when he had the time maybe he would have posted pics of his "special" shoes.

In my way of thinking, this could have all been avoided without anybody getting a bloody nose.

Ok, I had to reply directly to this. First of all, the problem was "resolved' without involving me. I was pretty much told that Leffot had canceled my order and the only recourse I had was to order another shoe. I found that disrespectful and I felt that I could bitch about it on line if I wanted to since my complaint directly to EG said that their hands were tied. Did I use a hammer to kill a fly? Perhaps. I would hope that there were lessons learned from this: I learned not to post when I get a better price on-line as people actually read my stupid posts. I hope Leffot learned that there is better ways of dealing with customers than to go behind their backs and have their order canceled. As I stated before, if I am treated with respect, I can be a very reasonable person. If anyone from Leffot had contacted me and explained the situation I would have been fine with it.

Secondly, the only assumption that I made was that Leffot read SF. You are right, someone else may have posted the exact same thing on another on-line forum. However, a Google search failed to find it and only brought up my post. Just for clarification, I am posting most of the email chain below:


On Jun 4, 2011, at 8:12 AM, "Edward Green and Co" wrote:

Dear Sir,

I am glad to hear you are interested in the Navy Cordovan Westminster shoe on the 888 last, we will have this shoe in stock from September this year, supply is very limited so we recommend you place a order asap to avoid disapointment, we can order a pair in your size or reserve a pair of the shoes we have coming in for you if you let us know your size?

The shoe is priced at £775 with shoe trees and shipping to the US, if you would like to place a order please provide card (long number, expiry date and 3 digit security code), address and telephone details if deciding to go ahead with the order but please note we do not accept Diners. Alternatively if you like we can send you a payment request through Paypal.com. Please note you may be liable for Import Duties if you reside outside of the EU.

Kind Regards

********** ***********
Edward Green

_____________________________

Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 10:50 PM

Subject: Re: Edward Green

Dear Mr. ********,

Thank you for your reply. I reside in the US so I believe I am not subject to VAT. If the price you quoted is without VAT, that is fine too, I just wanted to verify.

On the 888 I wear UK 11/US 11.5 and I would like to order a pair in that size.

Please bill me via Paypal at the address *************@hotmail.com.

Thank you!

********* ********

________________________________

From: Edward Green and Co [mailto:sales@edwardgreen.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:57 AM
To: *********** *************
Subject: Re: Edward Green

Dear ***********,

Thank you for your order.

I have sent the payment invoice to your email address supplied below.

We do not have this shoe ordered in your size (11UK) so I will add your shoe to our existing order which is due in around September time.

Once the shoe has been delivered we will ship it straight out to you in the US.

Could you please also supply your full shipping address details as well as a contact number.

Thanks again.

*********** *********
Edward Green

_________________________
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:31 AM
To: Edward Green and Co; ********** **********
Subject: RE: Navy cordovan Westminster.

Dear *********,

I am sorry to write to you on this matter, there is a problem with your Westminster Navy Cordovan order.

This shoe was chosen and styled by Leffot for their 3rd anniversary celebration, they have been in contact with us as they had a order for the style cancelled and then it was posted online that the shoe is available cheaper from Jermyn Street than at Leffot.

This means we are now not able to make this shoe so I am sorry we can not meet your order for a Westminster Navy Cordovan on this occasion.

We have the Sandringham available in Navy Cordovan from November this year otherwise other styles are available MTO in Navy Cordovan if you would like to chose something else or we will refund your deposit paid?

I look forward to speaking to you soon.
************ *********
Store Manager
Edward Green
post #234 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patek View Post


Ok, I had to reply directly to this. First of all, the problem was "resolved' without involving me. I was pretty much told that Leffot had canceled my order and the only recourse I had was to order another shoe. I found that disrespectful and I felt that I could bitch about it on line if I wanted to since my complaint directly to EG said that their hands were tied. Did I use a hammer to kill a fly? Perhaps. I would hope that there were lessons learned from this: I learned not to post when I get a better price on-line as people actually read my stupid posts. I hope Leffot learned that there is better ways of dealing with customers than to go behind their backs and have their order canceled. As I stated before, if I am treated with respect, I can be a very reasonable person. If anyone from Leffot had contacted me and explained the situation I would have been fine with it.

Secondly, the only assumption that I made was that Leffot read SF. You are right, someone else may have posted the exact same thing on another on-line forum. However, a Google search failed to find it and only brought up my post. Just for clarification, I am posting most of the email chain below:


On Jun 4, 2011, at 8:12 AM, "Edward Green and Co" wrote:

Dear Sir,

I am glad to hear you are interested in the Navy Cordovan Westminster shoe on the 888 last, we will have this shoe in stock from September this year, supply is very limited so we recommend you place a order asap to avoid disapointment, we can order a pair in your size or reserve a pair of the shoes we have coming in for you if you let us know your size?

The shoe is priced at £775 with shoe trees and shipping to the US, if you would like to place a order please provide card (long number, expiry date and 3 digit security code), address and telephone details if deciding to go ahead with the order but please note we do not accept Diners. Alternatively if you like we can send you a payment request through Paypal.com. Please note you may be liable for Import Duties if you reside outside of the EU.

Kind Regards

********** ***********
Edward Green

_____________________________

Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 10:50 PM

Subject: Re: Edward Green

Dear Mr. ********,

Thank you for your reply. I reside in the US so I believe I am not subject to VAT. If the price you quoted is without VAT, that is fine too, I just wanted to verify.

On the 888 I wear UK 11/US 11.5 and I would like to order a pair in that size.

Please bill me via Paypal at the address *************@hotmail.com.

Thank you!

********* ********

________________________________

From: Edward Green and Co [mailto:sales@edwardgreen.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:57 AM
To: *********** *************
Subject: Re: Edward Green

Dear ***********,

Thank you for your order.

I have sent the payment invoice to your email address supplied below.

We do not have this shoe ordered in your size (11UK) so I will add your shoe to our existing order which is due in around September time.

Once the shoe has been delivered we will ship it straight out to you in the US.

Could you please also supply your full shipping address details as well as a contact number.

Thanks again.

*********** *********
Edward Green

_________________________
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 7:31 AM
To: Edward Green and Co; ********** **********
Subject: RE: Navy cordovan Westminster.

Dear *********,

I am sorry to write to you on this matter, there is a problem with your Westminster Navy Cordovan order.

This shoe was chosen and styled by Leffot for their 3rd anniversary celebration, they have been in contact with us as they had a order for the style cancelled and then it was posted online that the shoe is available cheaper from Jermyn Street than at Leffot.

This means we are now not able to make this shoe so I am sorry we can not meet your order for a Westminster Navy Cordovan on this occasion.

We have the Sandringham available in Navy Cordovan from November this year otherwise other styles are available MTO in Navy Cordovan if you would like to chose something else or we will refund your deposit paid?

I look forward to speaking to you soon.
************ *********
Store Manager
Edward Green


This seems to rule out a lot of ASSumptions.

You have every right to post your experience with any vendor you want, SF-approved or not. Your experience may be very unique and has been unfortunate for EVERYONE involved.

I have only met Steve once, during the time Ron was there, and he was very nice, attentive, and informative, although I looked like total shit that day. So based on my experience, but I would use him again, but as with everything else YMMV.
Edited by gyasih - 7/22/11 at 8:30am
post #235 of 248
Patek,
I would probably be pissed off too but I think EG is the only one to blame as they shouldn't have taken the order to begin with. At the least, EG's price should have been on par with Leffot's. I also agree that Leffot could have handled it better and might have contacted you but it just doesn't seem like a logical thing to do. In this case, Leffot was much better off contacting EG. Did he have to insist on order cancellation? Maybe no, but this could have been a lesson to EG not to take orders behind their distributors or at least price them correctly.
post #236 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by alliswell View Post


This is how business works. Actions have consequences, and people act on information available to them in their own interest. To cite two examples from here: Crockett and Jones stopped selling to P.Lal because P.Lal was beating every other supplier's price, because we talked about it here. Filson shut down everybody offering a discount on their bags, including Cranes, a good friend of SF, because he advertised a discount here. I understand that you don't like the implications of that, but you don't have an expectation of privacy on anything that Google can find. That's the double-edged sword that the OP is using, and it cuts both ways.

There's no expectation of privacy - but It's the implications of Leffot snooping and being vindictive against that one particular customer that I don't like - sure, the examples you post are just business, but larger ones, not "individual customers" being snooped on, they were rather taken against the whole class, not one individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


You are assuming that Leffot "snooped" here and then complained to EG.
If you know this was the fact then enlighten us. If you consider this assumption, speculation to be fair. It would be just as fair to assume he didn't "snoop" here. Maybe, he wasn't even aware of this thread until way after the transaction ran it's course. Maybe, he still is not aware that this thread exists.
Assuming my points are closer to fact than your's. What would your position be?

I'm not "assuming" - see OP, and even the direct emails he just posted. Specifically "...they have been in contact with us as they had a order for the style cancelled and then it was posted online that the shoe is available cheaper from Jermyn Street than at Leffot. This means we are now not able to make this shoe..."

Honestly, I agree EG probably shouldn't have taken the order - but Leffot has just made things worse on themselves, hurt their image somewhat and poisoned some of their Google results simply by the way they handled the situation. I know I'll refrain from any order at Leffot in the future - at least until a whole lot of other stores are out of business, which I think is unlikely. People are going on about whether EG or Leffot is to blame here, or what OP should or shouldn't have done - but IMO that's kind of water under the bridge now, and the thing here relevant to the future is how Leffot handled this. I happen to think they handled it in just about the worst possible way, and I think it's important to make that clear.
post #237 of 248
One thought occured to me just now (apologies if it's already been mentioned), that I want to mention just to be fair to Leffot.

We've been assuming that Leffot called up EG and said, "We demand you cancel OP's order on the ground we have an exclusivity arrangement with you."

When you read the actual correspondence, it's quite possible Leffot called up EG and said, instead, "Hey, don't you remember we have an exclusivity arrangement with you? We saw on the internet that OP bought the same shoe."

Digest version: Perhaps Leffot simply called to voice its displeasure, and EG took it upon themselves to cancel the special order.
post #238 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator View Post

One thought occured to me just now (apologies if it's already been mentioned), that I want to mention just to be fair to Leffot.

We've been assuming that Leffot called up EG and said, "We demand you cancel OP's order on the ground we have an exclusivity arrangement with you."

When you read the actual correspondence, it's quite possible Leffot called up EG and said, instead, "Hey, don't you remember we have an exclusivity arrangement with you? We saw on the internet that OP bought the same shoe."

Digest version: Perhaps Leffot simply called to voice its displeasure, and EG took it upon themselves to cancel the special order.

+1

Even though I wish this thread would die I'm jumping back in to support this poster's observations. Because the truth is we have no actual facts as to the details of what was discussed between Leffot and EG.

To my knowledge, we also don't know if the OP actually realized at the time that he contacted EG about these shoes that Leffott was offering this as an 'exclusive' offering.

Without these two critical pieces of information much of what has been posted is just plain old GOSSIP.

And my grandmother would be ashamed of us all for indulging in such worthless behaviour.deadhorse-a.gif
post #239 of 248
Never have I seen so much made out of nothing. How can so many people have so much time and so much to say about something so inconsequential, especially when it involves such an incredible amount of conjecture. Sixteen pages of this crap. Something is seriously wrong here ... much more with forum members (and that includes the OP!) than the commercial entities mentioned. Everyone ... get back to life's meaningful pursuits, like finding a nice new pair of shoes for YOURSELF!
post #240 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolshoes View Post

Never have I seen so much made out of nothing. How can so many people have so much time and so much to say about something so inconsequential, especially when so much involves conjecture. Sixteen pages of this crap. Something is seriously wrong here ... much more with forum members (and that includes the OP!) than the commercial entities mentioned. Everyone ... get back to life's meaningful pursuits, like finding a nice new pair of shoes for YOURSELF!

You havent been here that long have you ?? Use the search function theres hundreds of these sort of threads my friend biggrin.gif
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