or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › New Forum Support  › FEEDBACK THREAD about the '-NEW-' look of Styleforum
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

FEEDBACK THREAD about the '-NEW-' look of Styleforum - Page 5  

post #61 of 83
FWIW, I went to the B&S forum for/to (most important to least important):

1. See what others were selling, not necessarily to buy something. I liked to look at stuff, learning about what was out there, getting ideas for future outfits, comparing construction of cheaper to more expensive items, learning about new brands, etc. It was a huge learning tool: all the time
2. Entertainment. I was reading the threads, always checking out the number of replies to see if there was something interesting going on: often
3. Randomly look for items in my size in case I find something interesting, i.e. killing time: often
4. Specifically search for something I needed: almost never
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

X post from TransMod, but....


Can I make a suggestion for the new B&S? Im sure you are all tired of hearing what could be different, considering all the work you put into it, but from someone who has sold $30,000+ and bought just as much on it, maybe I can offer some improvements...

Thanks Spoo. Lessee, I'll bring these all up in our next sit down, since B&S will be a big issue. OF course, there are bugs that need to be fixed. Features are harder to get implemented, but here are my honest opinions of what could probably be done:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
1. I feel the urgency is gone from a new listing. Mostly in fact because the page views are not prominent. Half the fun and key to grabbing fast sales on the old thread was getting in there first, and beating everyone else out. When you saw (well, when I saw) a thread with 1 page view, I knew it was fresh and the whole thread was filled with possibility.
Hmmm... could you elaborate bit more? This was never a driving force for me (it was really about the item category and brand, but I'd really like to hear where/how you'd envision it being more prominent. Bolded? Heavier font? Am I missing the boat altogether?

Spoo obviously has much experience with B&S, but as primarily a buyer, I like the new system. Perhaps making it more clear which items are new since you last checked that section would be an improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
2. The preview of the text IMO should be totally removed from the main page. If the seller puts most of the valid information in the first 100 characters of the post, I dont even bother clicking on it, because most of the information is visible. There could be tons more info in there, but if I get the "gist" of the item by seeing the preview, I wont even click on it and I could be missing something by default assumption.
I'm guessing that this would be the easiest thing to do. Is this a sentiment shared by others? Informal show of hands?

Again, as a buyer, I could hardly disagree more with this. Especially given that now there's only one item per listing, this makes scanning B&S much more efficient. People with under-$25 multi-listings can improve their strike rate by adapting and fitting useful info in the first 100 characters or at least making it clear that there are multiple items for sale in those 100 characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
3. The number of replies is missing from the main page, and I think this is hugely important. Even if replies do not warrant bumps, I dont feel inspired to reply to a sale post. Im pretty sure nobody else does either, because since the new system has been initiated, nobody really replies to a thread. There should be a reply count posted on the main page - a hot item or an item with a bad/good provenance will get attention, and more people will click. The more clicks, the more buys.
I can try to get this implemented - honestly, it never even occurred to me that this was important, and I do a fair bit of research on buyer behavior. Of course, metrics are difficult to calculate, and even when done correctly, are often just... wrong. I guess that missed this completely. Another straw poll please? I need some numbers if I am going to have any credibility going into the meeting.

One question I have for Spoo. Right now, the archived forum is quite active. Do you think that leaving it open is actually discouraging adoption of the new system?

Can new threads be started in the archived B&S? If so, I imagine adoption of the new B&S will be slow. If not, I suspect it's just a matter of time until the old items are sold and it becomes less and less useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
There are other niggles that I can get into, but these are the most prominent issues for me. I used to refresh B&S like 40x daily - seriously - because I knew the urgency was there to "get in" as soon as a thread was posted... thats 99% gone lately, but I think by correcting these three things, it would help a bit. Other sellers and buyer can chime in if I am speaking for myself or the masses, but I really think that these small fixes would go a long way.
Please do. We made the new system because the other one was becoming a constant source of complaints, and a source of burdensome moderation. I'm going to say it - it has cost the developers and us something to the tune of $25K to build the system, which was one of the things custom built for us, so we are very interested in any suggestions to improve the B&S system, whether in the rules (obviously easier - for example, you can list your other items, which brings back that bazaar feel. That rule was implemented because of user feedback in the sandbox period), or in fixes of the type the Spoo suggests. For obvious reasons, while the bugs will get fixed, the developers are going to be sort of pissed if I keep on asking for more features, and getting more work done is going to take some pretty convincing arguments from me. So, help me out here, people.

P.S. Please don't ask for things like "A system that works like Yoox or Zappos" because that system costs a few million and a year of many developers time. Yeah, I know, I wanted that too.

Upthread, I mentioned the difficulty navigating between listings and filtered views. Fixing that would have the biggest impact IMO.
post #63 of 83
New B&S seems useless to me if you can't search by size. Also, maybe "categories/styles" of clothes (e.g. gothninja -- sounds silly, would work in practice). Or brand tagging. Something. Right now it's all the shortcomings of eBay without the advantages.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post


One question I have for Spoo. Right now, the archived forum is quite active. Do you think that leaving it open is actually discouraging adoption of the new system?


I think that having the archive forum open is the only thing keeping people here...

post #65 of 83
Goddamit.. I tried to quote your reply, but all it got was the last paragraph. Thats a topic for another thread... cloud.gif


Quote:
Quote:
1. I feel the urgency is gone from a new listing. Mostly in fact because the page views are not prominent. Half the fun and key to grabbing fast sales on the old thread was getting in there first, and beating everyone else out. When you saw (well, when I saw) a thread with 1 page view, I knew it was fresh and the whole thread was filled with possibility.


Hmmm... could you elaborate bit more? This was never a driving force for me (it was really about the item category and brand, but I'd really like to hear where/how you'd envision it being more prominent. Bolded? Heavier font? Am I missing the boat altogether?

When I see a listing that has 1 pageview, or under 50 pageviews, I know that odds are, anything in there is up for grabs. If I see something with 1300 pageviews, I have either a) probably looked at it, or b), everything good is gone. From a selling aspect, 75% of the items I sell in a multi-item thread go in the first 24 hours. From a buying aspect, if I see a thread with low pageviews and something interesting to lure me in in the title, I dive right in and get the urge because its like the first one in a sample sale.

tl;dr - yeah, heavier font and bold would work. Or, columns like the old setup that has pageviews and # of replies.

Quote:
Quote:
2. The preview of the text IMO should be totally removed from the main page. If the seller puts most of the valid information in the first 100 characters of the post, I dont even bother clicking on it, because most of the information is visible. There could be tons more info in there, but if I get the "gist" of the item by seeing the preview, I wont even click on it and I could be missing something by default assumption.


I'm guessing that this would be the easiest thing to do. Is this a sentiment shared by others? Informal show of hands?

Sugarbutch gave the veto up there, but as a seller, what if there is a lot to mention about the item that you assume you know everything about it you see in the preview? The preview shows "OMFG eleventy gajillion awesome Attolini tie, NWT...." and the buyer sees that, gets all excited, PMs without reading the rest, which goes on to say "but this tie was used once or twice as anal floss and shows some signs of wear, slight odors". Seewhatimsayin?
Quote:
Quote:
3. The number of replies is missing from the main page, and I think this is hugely important. Even if replies do not warrant bumps, I dont feel inspired to reply to a sale post. Im pretty sure nobody else does either, because since the new system has been initiated, nobody really replies to a thread. There should be a reply count posted on the main page - a hot item or an item with a bad/good provenance will get attention, and more people will click. The more clicks, the more buys.


I can try to get this implemented - honestly, it never even occurred to me that this was important, and I do a fair bit of research on buyer behavior. Of course, metrics are difficult to calculate, and even when done correctly, are often just... wrong. I guess that missed this completely. Another straw poll please? I need some numbers if I am going to have any credibility going into the meeting.

Its important to me to see what discussion is brewing - and especially that bumps are null now, why not just put it in there? Its not really a hinderance either way, is it?
Quote:
One question I have for Spoo. Right now, the archived forum is quite active. Do you think that leaving it open is actually discouraging adoption of the new system?

Not sure if you can post a new thread, but if you can post a new thread there, then hell yeah its a deterrent. I havent finished working on my next batch of FS items yet (spam[1].gif coming soon), but if I had it ready right now, I would post in the old one, not the new, to be totally honest.

Quote:
Quote:
There are other niggles that I can get into, but these are the most prominent issues for me. I used to refresh B&S like 40x daily - seriously - because I knew the urgency was there to "get in" as soon as a thread was posted... thats 99% gone lately, but I think by correcting these three things, it would help a bit. Other sellers and buyer can chime in if I am speaking for myself or the masses, but I really think that these small fixes would go a long way.


Please do

Mainly the things I just mentioned - anything else I had in mind was trivial and I cant remember it at the mo'.... but Ill let you know once I actually list my stuff in the next week or so when I get hands on with it.
post #66 of 83
I'm quoting myself from another thread, but I feel it is relevant to the current discussion on B&S.

Here goes:



The old B&S was like a sprawling bazaar, a place you could 'e-walk' through every now and then, check out all that the peddlers had on offer, shoot the $hit, etc.

Like any good bazaar, it felt like a community.

It had a few non-negotiable rules, but on the whole was a freewheeling enterprise.

Finally, it was simple to understand and easily navigable.

I'm not paying for the revamp so I can't complain too much about it. But I do think that the new B&S 'feels' more impersonal and by the numbers. I wonder what the 'mega sellers' think of only one product per thread. Coming to the OP, I am not sure how pricing, and price drops, will work in this environment with all the rules. I do hope that in time it becomes as good as the old B&S.


:
post #67 of 83
I think I'm with Spoo- the B&S would be better without the preview picture.

In the end, I like the written description more than the itsy-bitsy-no-real-content image.
post #68 of 83
What was so bad about the old system that needed the complete overhaul?

Sure it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't broken per se.
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraiche View Post

What was so bad about the old system that needed the complete overhaul?

Sure it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't broken per se.

Per se is the important qualifier.

At the beginning, it was like Rousseau's village in the Social Contract. The community was extremely small, and people were essentially just trading stuff, with some flipping (I flipped a few things even, back in about 2004-5.) As it grew though, it became unweildy, people started gaming the system on a large scale, and took up about 50% of moderation time and headache, and bizarre and difficult to enforce rules had to be enacted and enforced. IN the last 18 months, there were over 180 pages devoted to complaints about different abuses, about deficiencies in the system, etc...

So, we decided at when we partnered with the Huddler, that having them builld us a custom B&S system that would allow the market to dictate things would be one of our conditions. There were various ideas bandied around, including some awesome, but ultimately untenable ones (i.e. would require at least hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce), and eventually we decided on this system, which would govern user behavior mostly automatically, and be much easier to moderate and much less prone to abuse. Price drops, etc.. would no longer be enforced. The market would be allowed to evolve organically. The system was designed to give buyers an easier browsing system and sellers more exposure, with a minimal cost associated with increased privileges.

BTW,+ yes, a size tagging system is being built. Brand or "style" tags are much more difficult to produce and much less robust, so there are no immediate plans for those.

Obviously, our pricing system and usergroups are subject to change, since that is a real time experiment, though the usergroups created were based on the fact that there were different types of sellers, and different types of buyers, and different scenarios were tested.
post #70 of 83
^

Thanks for the internal management perspective.
post #71 of 83

The new B&S is different, its like comparing apples to oranges. One is a forum and one is a classifieds. You can't compare a free flowing forum to a structured classified system. For whatever reasons (complaints, etc) we now have classifieds. That being said....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

1. I feel the urgency is gone from a new listing. Mostly in fact because the page views are not prominent. Half the fun and key to grabbing fast sales on the old thread was getting in there first, and beating everyone else out. When you saw (well, when I saw) a thread with 1 page view, I knew it was fresh and the whole thread was filled with possibility.

 

Like Spoo, I would refresh the B&S forum multiple times a day, maybe not 40, but 20? The first thing I looked for when scanning the first page was ones with 0 replies and low views. As he said, this gave the possibility of striking gold. I've replied to posts 5 min old and the thing I wanted was already taken and paid for, wtf! This is totally taken away in the new system.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

2. The preview of the text IMO should be totally removed from the main page. If the seller puts most of the valid information in the first 100 characters of the post, I don't even bother clicking on it, because most of the information is visible. There could be tons more info in there, but if I get the "gist" of the item by seeing the preview, I wont even click on it and I could be missing something by default assumption.

 

The preview, preview picture should be taken away (or at least have the option to hide them). As someone mentioned I'm sure they are not speeding up the site, but either way personally I like to skim the adds. The smaller and more grouped the better. Have the title, seller, seller feedback, views, replies and price. If the seller does a good job with the title of the item, I'll know in a split second if I want to view that item or not and can scan tons of items quickly.

 

Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

3. The number of replies is missing from the main page, and I think this is hugely important. Even if replies do not warrant bumps, I don't feel inspired to reply to a sale post. I'm pretty sure nobody else does either, because since the new system has been initiated, nobody really replies to a thread. There should be a reply count posted on the main page - a hot item or an item with a bad/good provenance will get attention, and more people will click. The more clicks, the more buys.


+1 need the amount of replies on the page IMO, this goes back to item #1 somewhat.

 

In regard to the old forum. I think you still see a lot of activity there b/c it is a forum. There is a sense of community which makes/made the B&S so great. It wasn't just a place to sell stuff but it was it's own fun place to see what was going on. It was it's own community within the SF. How many views/replies did the "home made pocket square thread" & "Bijan Million Dollar thread" get? This new system is not a forum and awesome threads like those will never be again. There is no need for interaction or replies within the item to facilitate any kind of community. If you want the item or have a questions send a PM. Done. Someone said (and I'm not sure where i read this), its a crappy version of eBay. I tend to agree for the most part (but without the millions of dollars and years of experience to make it work, no offense). It's eBay without the auction (Buy It Now or Best Offer only) and I know it's brand new, with bugs, etc, but it's not a forum anymore. Once people accept that its not a forum, there's no community involvement, but instead a classified system, very structured so to limit complains, they will decide if they want to use it or not. Time will tell.

 

PS - If you don't mind me asking, what were some of the major complaints of the old B&S forum. Since I first found this site, I started slow and small, learnt how it was done and spent a ton of time making nice adds. I never once had a major problem buying or selling. Maybe we can help come up with solutions for the major problems in the forum type system instead totally switching (although it does sound too late after $$$$ was spent on it)?

post #72 of 83
^ The biggest problem was the bumping by new members who never read/understood the rules. 99% of the MC B&S sellers played by the rules, but the few that didn't ruined it for everybody.
SW&D B&S had problems with sellers coming from SUFU.

The biggest problem with the new system is that it kind of ruins multiple purchase transactions. I must have bought two dozen pairs of Mabitex in the last 9 months.shog[1].gif
IIRC I never bought just one pair. I would always pick up two or three at a time and get a discount. Most of my transactions as a seller were multiple purchase transactions too.
post #73 of 83
It was a real pain, the gamesmanship about thread bumping and the complaining about who was doing what.

The old system had lost its charm for me precisely because the sellars were so worried about bumps. We couldn't
chat about the object because it was perceived as unfair. People were getting timed out, fined, and banned
over it. The system was creaky, and breaking down.

I'm not sure the new system has done evolving, mind you, but this weird nostalgia which coats the old
system in a golden glow of perfection is just... nuts.
post #74 of 83
Trying to hold my tongue and bear with it, but I feel I have to say my piece.

I cannot use this on an iPad. When many members are downloading browser extensions, and even switching browsers, to make one of your design features go away, your design has a huge flaw. When you say the ads are not going anywhere, that just says you won't fix the problem, which leaves us where?

I am probably the 0.74% that J mentioned using IE6. I know it's obsolete, but I don't have a choice during the day. I have to scroll through 5 pages of white space to get to the first post in a thread. The flippant dismissal of this problem as too insignificant to bother about wasn't encouraging.

If I can't use this on an iPad at home or IE6 during breaks at work, then my ability to visit the site at all is going to be drastically curtailed. That's not what I was hoping for from the upgrade.

This implementation has been rush-released. Conversion activities such as the search indexing should have been done before release to the full membership. The UI should have tested against all common browsers, devices and interfaces. Had that been done many problems should have been picked up and the release should have been delayed.

I simply don't understand why we have to look at review threads from external feeds when they are not relevant to the community's interests (TImex watches, Billabong shorts ????). I get how they are appearing, I just do not get why we are taking these feeds. I can't believe that the beta testers thought these were a good idea.

The end result for me is that I have reduced my browsing to the two threads I subscribed to pre-upgrade. I don't browse the forums any more and I don't visit b&s.

Don't know if it's true of anyone else, but the new SF is driving me away. I doubt that was the idea.
post #75 of 83
LOL @ the beta testers. failz abundant.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: New Forum Support
This thread is locked  
Styleforum › Forums › General › New Forum Support  › FEEDBACK THREAD about the '-NEW-' look of Styleforum