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Help me with my "tailor speak" - Page 2

post #16 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyThe Tailor View Post
Almost all should have these types of patterns in their fabric lines. Unless you go MTM, you will never have a proper fit.
Really? I have yet to find ones like those. Any examples? Other than the Modern Tailor example as stated above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post
you are asking the impossible. you dont want any extra fabric on the side???? how do you expect to sit down. only buy shirts with stretch!
Don't be so literal. Not 0 fabric on the sides. I just like it to be rid of most excess material so that, when I tuck in my shirt, there isn't a ton of fabric that I have to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post
The seams should really be flat-felled rather than French seams.
I have no idea what the difference is. Never actually heard of "flat-felled" before. Could you explain this please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark View Post
I have found that "tailors" aren't always the best to go to for alterations. Try finding someone who does alterations exclusively.
I kind of have to go with who I have down here. There aren't that many options, and fewer good ones, so the name on the sign is not the best predictor of success for me.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
I have no idea what the difference is. Never actually heard of "flat-felled" before. Could you explain this please?

Just look at the side-seams on any RTW shirt, they will be flat-felled. A french seam also encloses the seams but is done slightly differently and, afaik, is more common on women's garments.
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
Really? I have yet to find ones like those. Any examples? Other than the Modern Tailor example as stated above.

I have a similar shape to you, though not quite as extreme. Even Maxwell's, which isn't exactly the top tier of MTM, has no problems fitting shirts for me. It's hard to imagine that they'd be the only ones.
post #19 of 33
Considering these aren't dress shirts have you considered some of the techy fabrics? There are fabrics with a small amount of non cotton to make the shirt more form fitting.
post #20 of 33
The way shirts work is to take your chest, waist and hip measurements and add X amount of inches in each area for ease. The more you add the looser the fit, the less you add the closer the fit. Use the measure of the fullest part of your waist, above your trouser waist and on the fullest part of your love handles. This is usually bigger than your trouser waist. If you want a close fit, add 4". If you measure 34 at this point and add 4" the shirt waist will measure 38 or when the shirt is buttoned up and flat on a table, it will measure 19" at the waist. This is the half measure. In your case, even if you are a 12" drop work with a 10" drop. Let's say 44 chest, 34 waist. Add 5" to the chest. It will finish 49" and 24.5" for the half measure. Waist + 4" will finish 38" and 19" for the half measure. Ask the tailor to split the waist. Meaning; if you need 6" total removed from the shirt at the waist, it is taking the waist in 3" on each side. Most will take 1.5" from the front part and the same amount from the back part. have them take 1" from the front part and 2" from the back part. This will give you a trimmer look at the sides and the back and you may not need darts. make sure they do not taper into the hip area. The hip needs to flare out again to not be tight on the hips. Usually the shirt hem needs to be remade to retain the original shape of the hem when tapering this much. It is a lot of PIA work. After you have done this once successfully, all you need are the finished measurements for doing the same work to other shirts. You want to be careful though regarding the depth of the armholes. This will vary from shirt to shirt and has to be considered. If the person you work with doesn't grasp this, move on to the next. Regarding your jacket sleeves, when you are standing at the mirror with your arm relaxed at your side, bend your thumb up like you are hitchhiking. Mark the sleeve length to just touch the L shaped joint of your thumb and wrist. This is a fixed point and gives the proper jacket sleeve length. Don't be surprised if it comes out too short the first few times. It is a bit tricky to mark the sleeve length this way but you learn by doing it a few hundred times.
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
Really? I have yet to find ones like those. Any examples? Other than the Modern Tailor example as stated above.

I have about 15 swatches like that
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
The way shirts work is to take your chest, waist and hip measurements and add X amount of inches in each area for ease. The more you add the looser the fit, the less you add the closer the fit.

Use the measure of the fullest part of your waist, above your trouser waist and on the fullest part of your love handles. This is usually bigger than your trouser waist. If you want a close fit, add 4". If you measure 34 at this point and add 4" the shirt waist will measure 38 or when the shirt is buttoned up and flat on a table, it will measure 19" at the waist. This is the half measure.

In your case, even if you are a 12" drop work with a 10" drop. Let's say 44 chest, 34 waist. Add 5" to the chest. It will finish 49" and 24.5" for the half measure. Waist + 4" will finish 38" and 19" for the half measure. Ask the tailor to split the waist. Meaning; if you need 6" total removed from the shirt at the waist, it is taking the waist in 3" on each side. Most will take 1.5" from the front part and the same amount from the back part. have them take 1" from the front part and 2" from the back part. This will give you a trimmer look at the sides and the back and you may not need darts. make sure they do not taper into the hip area. The hip needs to flare out again to not be tight on the hips. Usually the shirt hem needs to be remade to retain the original shape of the hem when tapering this much. It is a lot of PIA work.

After you have done this once successfully, all you need are the finished measurements for doing the same work to other shirts. You want to be careful though regarding the depth of the armholes. This will vary from shirt to shirt and has to be considered. If the person you work with doesn't grasp this, move on to the next.

Regarding your jacket sleeves, when you are standing at the mirror with your arm relaxed at your side, bend your thumb up like you are hitchhiking. Mark the sleeve length to just touch the L shaped joint of your thumb and wrist. This is a fixed point and gives the proper jacket sleeve length. Don't be surprised if it comes out too short the first few times. It is a bit tricky to mark the sleeve length this way but you learn by doing it a few hundred times.

Excellent information there.
post #23 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I have a similar shape to you, though not quite as extreme. Even Maxwell's, which isn't exactly the top tier of MTM, has no problems fitting shirts for me. It's hard to imagine that they'd be the only ones.
I'm sure I could get MTM. Its finding the fruity patterns and colors on the cheap that I have a problem with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
Considering these aren't dress shirts have you considered some of the techy fabrics? There are fabrics with a small amount of non cotton to make the shirt more form fitting.
Yeah, stretch doesn't work too well on me. I end up looking like a Bro. God forbid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
The way shirts work is to take your chest, waist and hip measurements and add X amount of inches in each area for ease. The more you add the looser the fit, the less you add the closer the fit. Use the measure of the fullest part of your waist, above your trouser waist and on the fullest part of your love handles. This is usually bigger than your trouser waist. If you want a close fit, add 4". If you measure 34 at this point and add 4" the shirt waist will measure 38 or when the shirt is buttoned up and flat on a table, it will measure 19" at the waist. This is the half measure. In your case, even if you are a 12" drop work with a 10" drop. Let's say 44 chest, 34 waist. Add 5" to the chest. It will finish 49" and 24.5" for the half measure. Waist + 4" will finish 38" and 19" for the half measure. Ask the tailor to split the waist. Meaning; if you need 6" total removed from the shirt at the waist, it is taking the waist in 3" on each side. Most will take 1.5" from the front part and the same amount from the back part. have them take 1" from the front part and 2" from the back part. This will give you a trimmer look at the sides and the back and you may not need darts. make sure they do not taper into the hip area. The hip needs to flare out again to not be tight on the hips. Usually the shirt hem needs to be remade to retain the original shape of the hem when tapering this much. It is a lot of PIA work. After you have done this once successfully, all you need are the finished measurements for doing the same work to other shirts. You want to be careful though regarding the depth of the armholes. This will vary from shirt to shirt and has to be considered. If the person you work with doesn't grasp this, move on to the next. Regarding your jacket sleeves, when you are standing at the mirror with your arm relaxed at your side, bend your thumb up like you are hitchhiking. Mark the sleeve length to just touch the L shaped joint of your thumb and wrist. This is a fixed point and gives the proper jacket sleeve length. Don't be surprised if it comes out too short the first few times. It is a bit tricky to mark the sleeve length this way but you learn by doing it a few hundred times.
This is excellent but how would I apply this to my OTR shirts? They're not all standard sizes. Shit, most shirts from the same store aren't the same size in two different styles. The problem with the jackets is that they keep making them too long. Its drives me fucking nuts when I can close my hand on my jacket. I don't know why I have such trouble getting this down. It seems fairly simple to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyThe Tailor View Post
I have about 15 swatches like that
True, but you also charge $100 a pop if I'm reading your website correctly. I snag these bastards for $15-25 on sale. Even with the $25 in tailoring its still not close. Just to be clear - I'm not using these shirts for "dress wear". Hell, I don't even own a suit.
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

True, but you also charge $100 a pop if I'm reading your website correctly. I snag these bastards for $15-25 on sale. Even with the $25 in tailoring its still not close.

Just to be clear - I'm not using these shirts for "dress wear". Hell, I don't even own a suit.

That's the sale price for basic pinpoints. The patterns we are discussing are $195.00 to $295.00, which is the price of admission to what you are looking for.
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
This is excellent but how would I apply this to my OTR shirts? They're not all standard sizes. Shit, most shirts from the same store aren't the same size in two different styles.

The problem with the jackets is that they keep making them too long. Its drives me fucking nuts when I can close my hand on my jacket. I don't know why I have such trouble getting this down. It seems fairly simple to me.

i think despos has given really specific and useful advice that with some imagination and reflection you could apply to any of your shirts.

here are a couple more thoughts:

the extra material on the sides, coupled with the tightness in the upper back, suggests that your tailors are doing the standard "lazy tailor" fix: going overly aggressive on the darts and not working enough on the sides, because the latter requires more work to get right, while darts are the easiest thing to do. yet, overuse of darts can easily have a distorting effect.

i'd suggest you start with having your tailor shape as much as they can WITHOUT darts, and then use darts only as the finishing touch rather than as the foundation of the alteration.

also, make sure that the darts are short (in height) and don't traverse vast expanses of your back (another common sin). this will help avoid excess material being taken out of the upper back. this is the likely issue, not that they are too close to the center.

as for your jacket sleeve length - a likely cause of the excess length is that when you get your sleeves measured, you are standing bolt-upright in a robot pose when you are measured. in real life you will stand less rigidly straight, and your arm will curve towards the front. this will naturally cause your sleeve to "slip down" and feel longer than it was when you were measured. so next time you get a jacket altered, make sure that when you pick up the altered product, you also try it on standing exactly as you were when you got it measured. you're probably getting what you asked for, but then discovering in real-life use it's too long. if that's the case then assume a more natural posture when you're getting measured.
post #26 of 33
3 X $50 = $150 in ill-fitting cheap shirts. MTM can be found as cheap as $50 and there are lots of options under $100. What do you want? Lots of cheap, poorly fitting shirts that will last a year or two if you are lucky, or a handful of shirts that fit you perfectly and are more likely to last you for a longer period of time?
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
This is excellent but how would I apply this to my OTR shirts? They're not all standard sizes. Shit, most shirts from the same store aren't the same size in two different styles. The problem with the jackets is that they keep making them too long. Its drives me fucking nuts when I can close my hand on my jacket. I don't know why I have such trouble getting this down. It seems fairly simple to me.
You apply this to OTR shirts by first knowing your measurements, chest, waist and hip and applying different amounts of ease. This is actual "tailor speak" For example 44", your actual chest measurement, +5" = 49/24.5" shirt chest measurement. 34" waist + 4" = 38/19" shirt waist measurement, 42 hips + 5" = 47/23.5" shirt hip measurement. These ease amounts make for a trim shirt but are used as an example, you and your tailor will have to figure out what works for you. The numbers may change. Don't try to over fit the waist of the shirt, won't look good. If these finished shirt measurements give you the fit you like, use the measurements to control the fit of other shirts when you take them to your tailor. Walk in with a shirt and ask to have them tapered to 49/24.5" finished chest measure, 38/19" finished shirt waist measurement, 47/23.5" finished shirt hip measurement. If you use the finished measurements and apply these to any shirt you have, all your shirts will fit the same. Just be careful with the armhole depth and how this effects the measurements. This will differ on every shirt. I get spam from this company www.modasuite.com, they have the shirt fabric patterns you like and shirts are about $75.00 and they have sales. I know nothing about this company, like i said, I get spam emails from them. Shirts look like crap.
post #28 of 33
Why swith to shirts now?

post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
I get spam from this company www.modasuite.com, they have the shirt fabric patterns you like and shirts are about $75.00 and they have sales. I know nothing about this company, like i said, I get spam emails from them. Shirts look like crap.

TailorStore have loads of these casual check fabrics, and I have a couple of shirts from them and know them to be pretty decent (the shirts not those particular fabrics).
post #30 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoSkadelig View Post
i think despos has given really specific and useful advice that with some imagination and reflection you could apply to any of your shirts. here are a couple more thoughts: the extra material on the sides, coupled with the tightness in the upper back, suggests that your tailors are doing the standard "lazy tailor" fix: going overly aggressive on the darts and not working enough on the sides, because the latter requires more work to get right, while darts are the easiest thing to do. yet, overuse of darts can easily have a distorting effect. i'd suggest you start with having your tailor shape as much as they can WITHOUT darts, and then use darts only as the finishing touch rather than as the foundation of the alteration. also, make sure that the darts are short (in height) and don't traverse vast expanses of your back (another common sin). this will help avoid excess material being taken out of the upper back. this is the likely issue, not that they are too close to the center. as for your jacket sleeve length - a likely cause of the excess length is that when you get your sleeves measured, you are standing bolt-upright in a robot pose when you are measured. in real life you will stand less rigidly straight, and your arm will curve towards the front. this will naturally cause your sleeve to "slip down" and feel longer than it was when you were measured. so next time you get a jacket altered, make sure that when you pick up the altered product, you also try it on standing exactly as you were when you got it measured. you're probably getting what you asked for, but then discovering in real-life use it's too long. if that's the case then assume a more natural posture when you're getting measured.
The darts on most of the shirts go all the way to the yoke. I'm going to take a few photos to show you guys. Might help explain this shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyThe Tailor View Post
That's the sale price for basic pinpoints. The patterns we are discussing are $195.00 to $295.00, which is the price of admission to what you are looking for.
Woah there huckleberry. Come on back to the stable. I ain't no baller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohio View Post
3 X $50 = $150 in ill-fitting cheap shirts. MTM can be found as cheap as $50 and there are lots of options under $100. What do you want? Lots of cheap, poorly fitting shirts that will last a year or two if you are lucky, or a handful of shirts that fit you perfectly and are more likely to last you for a longer period of time?
Trust me, nice shit doesn't last long on me anyway. I end up fucking shirts up somehow, someway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
You apply this to OTR shirts by first knowing your measurements, chest, waist and hip and applying different amounts of ease. This is actual "tailor speak" For example 44", your actual chest measurement, +5" = 49/24.5" shirt chest measurement. 34" waist + 4" = 38/19" shirt waist measurement, 42 hips + 5" = 47/23.5" shirt hip measurement. These ease amounts make for a trim shirt but are used as an example, you and your tailor will have to figure out what works for you. The numbers may change. Don't try to over fit the waist of the shirt, won't look good. If these finished shirt measurements give you the fit you like, use the measurements to control the fit of other shirts when you take them to your tailor. Walk in with a shirt and ask to have them tapered to 49/24.5" finished chest measure, 38/19" finished shirt waist measurement, 47/23.5" finished shirt hip measurement. If you use the finished measurements and apply these to any shirt you have, all your shirts will fit the same. Just be careful with the armhole depth and how this effects the measurements. This will differ on every shirt. I get spam from this company www.modasuite.com, they have the shirt fabric patterns you like and shirts are about $75.00 and they have sales. I know nothing about this company, like i said, I get spam emails from them. Shirts look like crap.
Ah, I think I understand it now. I'll have to get measured. Actually, I'll have to find a competent alterationist. Then I'll get measured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post
Why swith to shirts now?
Sigh. If only I looked that good...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post
TailorStore have loads of these casual check fabrics, and I have a couple of shirts from them and know them to be pretty decent (the shirts not those particular fabrics).
I'll check them out. Thanks. Any other suggestions on cheap MTM for casual shit?
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