or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Riccardo Bestetti Bespoke projects.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Riccardo Bestetti Bespoke projects. - Page 68

post #1006 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


That's a neat, little way to put the blame for things going wrong onto the customer.

Any maker (of whatever product) will make mistakes and has things not coming out the way they are supposed to come out. Sometimes the fault can be corrected easily, sometimes not and the faulty product ought to be binned and a new item started afresh and from scratch. The later into the production cycle the fault appears, the higher the cost of a full remake.

The maker will be the first to see that things have turned out not to standard (long before the customer). He or she will have to decide whether to start afresh or they hope to get away with the problem as the customer won't be able to see it or, if they do, will not be bold enough to complain, asking for a either a remake or their money back. The craftsman/woman might come to different judgements for different customers: "X will notice and complain, but Y won't". So they decide which course of action to take on their knowledge of the customer.

Every individual has a different moral compass. If greed gets the better of a craftsman/woman, and quality control, best practices and work ethic break down, that cannot be laid at the door of the customer, but only at the mercenary nature of the maker him/herself.

Every language of the world has a word meaning "No!"

I agree with you about the responsibility of the craftsman but a lot of the onus does accrue to the customer. Why has GY supplanted HW as the gold standard...esp. among some factions of SF? I would argue that a great deal of the reason is the customers' demand for lower costs and greater accessibility. Combine that with an almost deliberate, if not perverse, ignorance about the alternatives and I don't know how anyone could expect the industry to do anything but respond.

The individual craftsman is not necessarily a paragon of morality or virtue and I've never said they were. They...we...are part of the consumer culture whether we like it or not and just as subject to the temptation to gain financial advantage. Every great RTW maker in the world started off as a bespoke workshop with the highest standards. Standards that, it could reasonably and objectively be argued, they abandoned when they made the choice to put profit above every other consideration...when they made the decision to cater to customer demand rather than adhere to best practices. When they made the decision to replace skilled workers and age old techniques with machines and expediency that allowed greater profit margins at the expense of quality. .

One of the early contributors to this thread-within-a-thread...maybe the OP--the person who posted the photos originally...said something to the effect that despite the flaws he would just live with them. If the customer won't, or doesn't know how to, demand better, why would the average businessman assume the apparently thankless task of giving the customer more than what he is asking for?

Another contributor suggested that the flaws were made all that more egregious because the wait was so long. Implying that the waiting time was more important to the perception of quality than the flaws themselves.

And just for the record...I took a great deal of time to look at those photos. I thought that the finishing problems were more than minor and I would hope...strive...to avoid such issue in my own work. But...and here I'm going out on a limb and I apologize for it...there were greater problems with that shoe than a little bit of edge ink or cement on the upper.

--
Edited by DWFII - 5/8/14 at 4:37pm
post #1007 of 1126

They were still 100% handmade handwelted shoes...

 

And his bespoke still costs much less than any of the British makers...

 

A few minor fudges don't personally bother me, especially when they will never be noticed by anyone...and those marks were more than likely to develop overtime anyway from wear.

 

I think part of the beauty of Riccardo's shoes are the shapes of his lasts...at least for me this is what attracted me to his work in the first place...

 

...after that came the creative flare that he adds to his shoes with the uses of exotics...the coloring...and the finishing with layers of polish to give the shoes extra character.

post #1008 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCK1 View Post
 

They were still 100% handmade handwelted shoes...

 

And his bespoke still costs much less than any of the British makers...

 

A few minor fudges don't personally bother me, especially when they will never be noticed by anyone...and those marks were more than likely to develop overtime anyway from wear.

To me that isn't okay. It would be if that was the normal standard, but to have one standard advertised and get something lesser when paying full price is upsetting. The customer is free to make the choice and makers should live up to what they sell.

 

In all fairness I often notice very minor things on my Meccariellos such as the pattern not being 100% exactly the same on both shoes. These are fine and the byproduct of being hand made. No one but me will ever know.

 

Actual defects should at least be covered up to the best of the makers ability and come with a partial refund or some other kind of compensation for deviating from what was promised.

 

Meermin offers handwelted shoes at the fraction of the price.

post #1009 of 1126

I wouldn't call them defects...at most minor flaws in the finishing...if even that...

 

...and those little things aren't noticeable unless you stick the shoe right up in your face...

post #1010 of 1126
I sure wish the pics were still up, I have no idea of what kind of flaws the pics showed... frown.gif
post #1011 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCK1 View Post
 

I wouldn't call them defects...at most minor flaws in the finishing...if even that...

 

...and those little things aren't noticeable unless you stick the shoe right up in your face...


I did not see the pictures, am just saying in general :).

 

Any output work to me should represent the sample work showed, relying that it was implicit in the agreement (ex. not going from prototype to mass production).

post #1012 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I agree with you about the responsibility of the craftsman but a lot of the onus does accrue to the customer. Why has GY supplanted HW as the gold standard...esp. among some factions of SF? I would argue that a great deal of the reason is the customers' demand for lower costs and greater accessibility. Combine that with an almost deliberate, if not perverse, ignorance about the alternatives and I don't know how anyone could expect the industry to do anything but respond.

The individual craftsman is not necessarily a paragon of morality or virtue and I've never said they were. They...we...are part of the consumer culture whether we like it or not and just as subject to the temptation to gain financial advantage. Every great RTW maker in the world started off as a bespoke workshop with the highest standards. Standards that, it could reasonably and objectively be argued, they abandoned when they made the choice to put profit above every other consideration...when they made the decision to cater to customer demand rather than adhere to best practices. When they made the decision to replace skilled workers and age old techniques with machines and expediency that allowed greater profit margins at the expense of quality. .

One of the early contributors to this thread-within-a-thread...maybe the OP--the person who posted the photos originally...said something to the effect that despite the flaws he would just live with them. If the customer won't, or doesn't know how to, demand better, why would the average businessman assume the apparently thankless task of giving the customer more than what he is asking for?

Another contributor suggested that the flaws were made all that more egregious because the wait was so long. Implying that the waiting time was more important to the perception of quality than the flaws themselves.

And just for the record...I took a great deal of time to look at those photos. I thought that the finishing problems were more than minor and I would hope...strive...to avoid such issue in my own work. But...and here I'm going out on a limb and I apologize for it...there were greater problems with that shoe than a little bit of edge ink or cement on the upper.

--

'Nuff said and thanks for that cogent analysis.
post #1013 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by meister View Post

'Nuff said and thanks for that cogent analysis.

cheers.gif
post #1014 of 1126
Does anyone know where Bestetti is sold in Korea? I am in Seoul.
post #1015 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorrmade View Post

Does anyone know where Bestetti is sold in Korea? I am in Seoul.

Bntailor carries Bestetti their RTW shoes.
post #1016 of 1126

a few pics of my test shoes if anyone finds it interesting.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

post #1017 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoGent View Post

a few pics of my test shoes if anyone finds it interesting.

Thanks, very interesting, which last are them on?
post #1018 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs View Post


Thanks, very interesting, which last are them on?

 

   neither test shoe was labeled as to last.  I think it's a safe assumption they were made to mimic his almond toe last since that is being produced.

 

   also, some have mentioned seeing some individual shots of the suede samples.  I'll apologize now for the crappy photos.

   if anyone is interested in a close-up of a particular color I'll be glad to do that to a better standard and more direct sunlight.

   the samples were janus calf and cudu suede.  there are also plenty of brown, cream & tan colors

 

 

post #1019 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoGent View Post
 

 

   neither test shoe was labeled as to last.  I think it's a safe assumption they were made to mimic his almond toe last since that is being produced.

 

   also, some have mentioned seeing some individual shots of the suede samples.  I'll apologize now for the crappy photos.

   if anyone is interested in a close-up of a particular color I'll be glad to do that to a better standard and more direct sunlight.

   the samples were janus calf and cudu suede.  there are also plenty of brown, cream & tan colors

 

 

Beautiful colors ... there's that blue that's cool! What color you have chosen?

post #1020 of 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoGent View Post

there is a blue in there named 'Baltic' . . . . it is the darkest, true navy suede I've ever seen
no
the deepest navy
suede is
the dark blue
kudu
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Riccardo Bestetti Bespoke projects.