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Obama Puts Guns in Hands of Mexican Drug Cartels - Page 8

post #106 of 129
Quote:
The contempt citations are likely to have little practical impact. The criminal referral was sent to the Justice Department, which will decline to pursue it, as George W. Bush’s Justice Department declined to pursue contempt citations passed in 2008 against White House officials. A civil citation approved Thursday by the House will not wind its way through the courts until long after Mr. Holder’s announced departure at the end of this year

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/politics/fast-and-furious-holder-contempt-citation-battle.html?pagewanted=all

Has Holder announced intentions to retire??
post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinW View Post

Quote:
The contempt citations are likely to have little practical impact. The criminal referral was sent to the Justice Department, which will decline to pursue it, as George W. Bush’s Justice Department declined to pursue contempt citations passed in 2008 against White House officials. A civil citation approved Thursday by the House will not wind its way through the courts until long after Mr. Holder’s announced departure at the end of this year
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/politics/fast-and-furious-holder-contempt-citation-battle.html?pagewanted=all
Has Holder announced intentions to retire??

Very few people stay at the white house for two terms. It's actually kind of unusual, and most people who stay multiple terms switch jobs at least once. GWB had 3 attorney generals (ashcroft, gonzales, mukasey), 2 secretary of defenses (rumsfeld, gates).

If you go to wikipedia (always accurate, but whatever), it appears only two of his cabinet members was in the same position for both terms - Elaine Chao (secretary of labor, basically untouchable due to personal relations) and John P. Walters (Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, in other words, a nobody, and I'm not even sure this is actually a cabinet post but wikipedia says it was).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_George_W._Bush
post #108 of 129
Darrell Issa Puts Details of Secret Wiretap Applications in Congressional Record
By Jonathan Strong
Roll Call Staff
June 29, 2012, 12:06 p.m.


In the midst of a fiery floor debate over contempt proceedings for Attorney General Eric Holder, House Oversight and Government Reform Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) quietly dropped a bombshell letter into the Congressional Record.

The May 24 letter to Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), ranking member on the panel, quotes from and describes in detail a secret wiretap application that has become a point of debate in the GOP’s “Fast and Furious” gun-walking probe.

The wiretap applications are under court seal, and releasing such information to the public would ordinarily be illegal. But Issa appears to be protected by the Speech or Debate Clause in the Constitution, which offers immunity for Congressional speech, especially on a chamber’s floor.

According to the letter, the wiretap applications contained a startling amount of detail about the operation, which would have tipped off anyone who read them closely about what tactics were being used.

Holder and Cummings have both maintained that the wiretap applications did not contain such details and that the applications were reviewed narrowly for probable cause, not for whether any investigatory tactics contained followed Justice Department policy.

The wiretap applications were signed by senior DOJ officials in the department’s criminal division, including Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Blanco and another official who is now deceased.

In Fast and Furious, agents for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allowed assault guns bought by “straw purchasers” to “walk,” which meant ending surveillance on weapons suspected to be en route to Mexican drug cartels.

The tactic, which was intended to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes, was condemned after two guns that were part of the operation were found at U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder scene.

Straw purchasers are individuals who buy guns on behalf of criminals, obscuring who is buying the weapons.

While Issa has since said he has obtained a number of wiretap applications, the letter only refers to one, from March 15, 2010. The full application is not included in what Issa entered into the Congressional Record, and names are obscured in Issa’s letter.

In the application, ATF agents included transcripts from a wiretap intercept from a previous Drug Enforcement Administration investigation that demonstrated the suspects were part of a gun-smuggling ring.

“The wiretap affidavit details that agents were well aware that large sums of money were being used to purchase a large number of firearms, many of which were flowing across the border,” the letter says.

The application included details such as how many guns specific suspects had purchased via straw purchasers and how many of those guns had been recovered in Mexico.

It also described how ATF officials watched guns bought by suspected straw purchasers but then ended their surveillance without interdicting the guns.

In at least one instance, the guns were recovered at a police stop at the U.S.-Mexico border the next day.

The application included financial details for four suspected straw purchasers showing they had purchased $373,000 worth of guns in cash but reported almost no income for the previous year, the letter says.

“Although ATF was aware of these facts, no one was arrested, and ATF failed to even approach the straw purchasers. Upon learning these details through its review of this wiretap affidavit, senior Justice Department officials had a duty to stop this operation. Further, failure to do so was a violation of Justice Department policy,” the letter says.

Holder declined to discuss the contents of the applications at a House Judiciary Committee hearing June 7 but said the applications were narrowly reviewed for whether there was probable cause to obtain a wiretap application.

Thousands of wiretap applications are reviewed each year by the DOJ’s criminal division. The applications are designed to obtain approval, so they tend to focus on the most suspicious information available.

A line attorney first creates a summary of the application, which is then usually reviewed by a deputy to Lanny Breuer, the head of the division, on his behalf. It is then reviewed and approved or denied by a judge.

Cummings has sided with the DOJ in the debate over the secret applications, but the full substance of his argument is unknown.

A June 5 letter from Cummings responding to Issa’s May 24 letter said Issa “omits the critical fact that [redacted].” The entire first section of the letter’s body is likewise blacked out.

"Sadly, it looks like Mr. Issa is continuing his string of desperate and unsubstantiated claims, while hiding key information from the very same documents," a Democratic committee staffer said. "His actions demonstrate a lack of concern for the facts, as well as a reckless disregard for our nation’s courts and federal prosecutors who are trying to bring criminals to justice. We’re not going to stoop to his level. Obviously, we are going to honor the court’s seal and the prosecutors’ requests. But if Mr. Issa won’t tell you what he is hiding from the wiretaps, you should ask him why."
post #109 of 129
Interesting take on things:
Quote:
ARIZONA is a funny state. There the full force of the law is brought to bear on the waning problem of illegal immigration, while a relatively lax approach is taken to the very real problem of gun-running. Take a couple examples from a new piece in Fortune. In one, ATF agents found that a man who purchased 476 firearms for $300,000 over six months was on food stamps. This would seem to suggest that he was a straw-purchaser of firearms—someone used by criminals to buy their guns for them. In the other, an unemployed man paid more than $10,000 for a 50-caliber sniper rifle, in what again seemed like a straw-purchase. In both cases the assistant US attorney in Phoenix warned agents about taking action against the men.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/06/operation-fast-and-furious
post #110 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinW View Post

Interesting take on things:
Quote:
ARIZONA is a funny state. There the full force of the law is brought to bear on the waning problem of illegal immigration, while a relatively lax approach is taken to the very real problem of gun-running. Take a couple examples from a new piece in Fortune. In one, ATF agents found that a man who purchased 476 firearms for $300,000 over six months was on food stamps. This would seem to suggest that he was a straw-purchaser of firearms—someone used by criminals to buy their guns for them. In the other, an unemployed man paid more than $10,000 for a 50-caliber sniper rifle, in what again seemed like a straw-purchase. In both cases the assistant US attorney in Phoenix warned agents about taking action against the men.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/06/operation-fast-and-furious

It would suggest it, but is in no way dispositive. I've worked in public assistance fraud for eleven years. People engaged in illegal activity are usually scamming the government in some way at the same time. For example, we have owners of fraudulent subsidized child care centers earning almost $1,000,000 who have successfully applied for TANF and food stamps.
post #111 of 129
Quote:
A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnest Hemingway View Post

Quote:
A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

Mandy Rice Davies: "He would say that wouldn't he?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies
post #113 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnest Hemingway View Post

Quote:
A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Sounds like Obama should be eager to release the documents then.
post #114 of 129
This stonewalling should have triggered a "gate" by now. The MSM is covering for their guy. I'm a little disappointed in Fox for not beating this drum more. Open every newscast with an update; dramatic music; grave concern about the Constitution; experts opining on Holder's lawlessness; and wild speculation about what is in the documents. If they won't produce the docs, just use your imagination. There needs to be a serious cost to the Holder/Obama stonewall.
post #115 of 129
Latino TV gives Obama a workout on Fast and Furious.

He looks clueless almost like a rabbit caught in the spotlight.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/20/obama-slammed-on-fast-and-furious-in-spanish-language-tv-interview-shouldnt-you-fire-eric-holder/
post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by meister View Post

Latino TV gives Obama a workout on Fast and Furious.
He looks clueless almost like a rabbit caught in the spotlight.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/20/obama-slammed-on-fast-and-furious-in-spanish-language-tv-interview-shouldnt-you-fire-eric-holder/


Wow that's an uncomfortable interview. How did he ever let himself be put in that position?
post #117 of 129
Quote:
Either Holder (and Mukasey, before him) knew about these operations and are being given a thorough whitewashing in the report, or else the U.S. Attorney General has lost control of whole sections of his department — whole armed, tax-funded sections that are dealing in weapons and operating in neighboring countries.

An either-or choice between deceitful bastard and incompetent figurehead should not be read as an exoneration.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/20/fast-and-furious-report-exonerates-holde

ZING!
post #118 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

This stonewalling should have triggered a "gate" by now. The MSM is covering for their guy. I'm a little disappointed in Fox for not beating this drum more. Open every newscast with an update; dramatic music; grave concern about the Constitution; experts opining on Holder's lawlessness; and wild speculation about what is in the documents. If they won't produce the docs, just use your imagination. There needs to be a serious cost to the Holder/Obama stonewall.
They're already there with this on "My Fox." You must be watching FauxFox. Or, maybe grave-concern-for-the-constitutionTM is wearing a bit thin with the great unwashed?
post #119 of 129
Univision investigation uncovers true horror of Fast and Furious = Obama lies - People (especially young Mexicans) die.

WARNING : Some of this footage is pretty graphic like actual executions of innocent people.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694#.UGmWDFGz6So
post #120 of 129
The US Media ignores it but the Latino media won't:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/01/Media-Watch-univision
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