Per Se vs. Eleven Madison Park - Page 3

Even though they have a service charge, if you left exactly $295, you wouldn't exactly be in the good graces of the FOH staff.

Then what is the point of including service? And what is the expected tip beyond that?

Seriously, at least when service is not included everyone knows what is expected. When it is, no one does. So either include it and make it clear that's it, as in Europe, or don't included it and let everyone tip as per custom.

I just skimmed the list, and if you're resigned to a $60-90 markup, some of the very cheapest wines on the list are actually quite well chosen. The problem is that they also go for 4x markups further up the chain.

Another interesting tidbit-- while they have a lot of good Bordeaux, it's not a comprehensive list. Very few 2000s, for one thing. Since I had the stupidity to buy a bunch of those before release, the $90 corkage fee could lead to some relatively good values there.

I looked through the list very carefully earlier this year and found nothing like that. I would have been delighted to see a mere $60-90 markup. Maybe it's changed a lot in the intervening months.

I have a question, folks. A friend tells me that if you go to a pricey restaurant and order an expensive bottle of wine before tipping you should subtract the cost of the wine before tipping your 20%. Is this common, or he is just cheap? I mean I see his point are you supposed to tip 20% on a bottle of Petrus?

And I hate how now,any type of "service" is expected to include a tip.

Probably not a lot. But in white halves, you have a good generic Riesling, a Matrot Meursault, and some Vouvray Sec from Huet. Red halves you get some Cote Rotie and St Joseph, and (pushing it), a Bandol, and several Italians for $80 or less.

In full bottles, there are quite a few at $100 or less that I'd suspect are worth opening, even with good food. Obviously, if you're in Burgundy or Bordeaux and leaving the generic/regional turf, it gets ugly. But the provincial stuff, as well as the Spanish and Italians, might be a useful test of the sommelier's ability to come to terms with the chef.

I was semi-planning a trip earlier this year with gomestar and we both looked through the list and came away totally discouraged. This was around Jan or Feb.

Now I am afraid to go because I don't know what is expected on the tipping side.

I still want to go and still have 3 $100 bills I set aside from bonus time.

But now there are 2 more 'supplemental' menu items

You're afraid that the waiters are all star writers at Devil's Island?

Seriously, what is expected? If I go to a place in France with "service compris" they really don't expect any additional money. So kyle is saying that Per Se does. Well, how much?

Beyond that, I think it's annoying that they require this huge service charge and then expect you to tip beyond that, and I have no idea what the expectation is.

I just re-looked at the wine list and thought I found some decent values.

my bad, that was the half-bottle section.

I just assume the above is in jest, but, just in case, Kyle is wrong. Service is included. FOH staff are salaried. You can add more if you want, but it is NOT expected.

No jest, I have never been there so I don't know.

The first few times I went to TFL it was before they had this policy (I even went when they still had an a la carte menu). Then after they adopted the policy I just paid the bill and didn't tip. Everyone smiled politely but for all I know they were seething inside.

I'd definitely choose Per Se over EMP and you can choose to do wine pairings which will give you a variety of well matched, fairly decent wines without paying enormous bottle mark ups.

The best part of EMP for me is the dessert which you can do after a more casual dinner elsewhere.

Also, if you are looking at more casual alternatives, check out ABC Kitchen. It is very approachable and fun and it just won a JB award.