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THE OFFICIAL "streetwear" BALLER BOOT/SHOE THREAD ***700usd Min*** - Page 302

post #4516 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdude View Post

Hi guys,

what is your experience with Layer-0 quality of the leather?   Thinking of buying those backzip  boots.  I read somewhere that the leather is not very thick and somewhat brittle.  It does look pretty solid on the photos. I am torn between the layer-0  ( good price/ quality) and Augusta back zips (love the look but over my budget at retail).

Also do you know a place in Montreal Canada who caries Layer-0/Guidi/MA+ or Augusta?

Thanks

http://suspensionpoint.ca/ is the only place I know in Montreal that has Guidi. Michel Brisson might as well actually, can't remember what they had last time I was there. There aren't many Canadian places to order from, off the top of my head: Sydneys and Serpentine in Toronto, Suspension point in MTL, and then re-porter (online consignment)
post #4517 of 13248
xpost from sz

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




post #4518 of 13248
Searched but hoping for a definitive answer. Looking to cop some MMM side zips, if I wear a 45 in the GAT should I get a 45 or could I fit a 44?
post #4519 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Marley View Post

Searched but hoping for a definitive answer. Looking to cop some MMM side zips, if I wear a 45 in the GAT should I get a 45 or could I fit a 44?

You could fit into a 44. I'm in the same situation though and I like to buy the 45 and just put insoles in

oh and it depends if you're buying the canvas ones or not. They fit larger so a 44 would be perfect. And these from last season fit the same as the canvas ones (I think that's what synth said)
post #4520 of 13248
Yes, but even wider.
post #4521 of 13248

I think those are the ones I have (in black) and I went the same size as my GATs.  They're maybe a tiny bit looser.

post #4522 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet View Post

There is no reason, he is trying to overtake ccp and by jacking up the prices he is creating the mystique that his shoes are somehow worthy of the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnedk View Post

thats true the illusion of "best" having highest price point does condition people

I've said this before, but most of these artisinal brands are horribly overpriced. A shoe from Edward Green is $1200... and it has to be dead on perfect with stitching, color, no leather deformities, per-wrinkling, etc. The leather itself must be perfect to start with - no scars, no color defects, etc. In other words, there is a high price to pay for a maker of fine shoes to get the best quality leather.

A1923, for example, does not have to go to such extremes. Their shoes are all mostly distressed/wrinkled, etc. before they are in the consumers' hands, so the leather does not have to be free of visual defects/blemishes. Scars, pits, stains that do not affect the durability of the leather can be left because they will be covered with dyes and other treatments. Yet, A1923 retails for $2k+, CCP is $2k+, etc. and, let's face it, those shoes - construction wise (attachment of sole/welt) is the same as the Edward Green, but the leather treatment itself isn't anywhere near EG level - because it does not have to be due to the styling. So why are they are 2x the price of a shoe that is much harder to produce correctly? It's much more difficult to make a perfect shoe than a "deliberately" destroyed shoe.
post #4523 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post


I've said this before, but most of these artisinal brands are horribly overpriced. A shoe from Edward Green is $1200... and it has to be dead on perfect with stitching, color, no leather deformities, per-wrinkling, etc. The leather itself must be perfect to start with - no scars, no color defects, etc. In other words, there is a high price to pay for a maker of fine shoes to get the best quality leather.
A1923, for example, does not have to go to such extremes. Their shoes are all mostly distressed/wrinkled, etc. before they are in the consumers' hands, so the leather does not have to be free of visual defects/blemishes. Scars, pits, stains that do not affect the durability of the leather can be left because they will be covered with dyes and other treatments. Yet, A1923 retails for $2k+, CCP is $2k+, etc. and, let's face it, those shoes - construction wise (attachment of sole/welt) is the same as the Edward Green, but the leather treatment itself isn't anywhere near EG level - because it does not have to be due to the styling. So why are they are 2x the price of a shoe that is much harder to produce correctly? It's much more difficult to make a perfect shoe than a "deliberately" destroyed shoe.

To be fair, Moo, the welting on A1923 seems to be hand-done (from the pair that I've examined) which is something EG does not do. Other than this, however, you're exactly on. 

post #4524 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I've said this before, but most of these artisinal brands are horribly overpriced. A shoe from Edward Green is $1200... and it has to be dead on perfect with stitching, color, no leather deformities, per-wrinkling, etc. The leather itself must be perfect to start with - no scars, no color defects, etc. In other words, there is a high price to pay for a maker of fine shoes to get the best quality leather.
A1923, for example, does not have to go to such extremes. Their shoes are all mostly distressed/wrinkled, etc. before they are in the consumers' hands, so the leather does not have to be free of visual defects/blemishes. Scars, pits, stains that do not affect the durability of the leather can be left because they will be covered with dyes and other treatments. Yet, A1923 retails for $2k+, CCP is $2k+, etc. and, let's face it, those shoes - construction wise (attachment of sole/welt) is the same as the Edward Green, but the leather treatment itself isn't anywhere near EG level - because it does not have to be due to the styling. So why are they are 2x the price of a shoe that is much harder to produce correctly? It's much more difficult to make a perfect shoe than a "deliberately" destroyed shoe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantsway View Post

To be fair, Moo, the welting on A1923 seems to be hand-done (from the pair that I've examined) which is something EG does not do. Other than this, however, you're exactly on. 

completely agree with both of you, i do think that the only big difference is thar CCP/A1923 make parts hand made and that a 1k price point is as much as it should go. In addition, you can have an entirely hand made shoe from one of the other big MC brands (vass i think) for same price. Anyways its just an aesthetic difference at this point. We all overpay for our style on SF some things you have deal with.
post #4525 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

I've said this before, but most of these artisinal brands are horribly overpriced. A shoe from Edward Green is $1200... and it has to be dead on perfect with stitching, color, no leather deformities, per-wrinkling, etc. The leather itself must be perfect to start with - no scars, no color defects, etc. In other words, there is a high price to pay for a maker of fine shoes to get the best quality leather.
A1923, for example, does not have to go to such extremes. Their shoes are all mostly distressed/wrinkled, etc. before they are in the consumers' hands, so the leather does not have to be free of visual defects/blemishes. Scars, pits, stains that do not affect the durability of the leather can be left because they will be covered with dyes and other treatments. Yet, A1923 retails for $2k+, CCP is $2k+, etc. and, let's face it, those shoes - construction wise (attachment of sole/welt) is the same as the Edward Green, but the leather treatment itself isn't anywhere near EG level - because it does not have to be due to the styling. So why are they are 2x the price of a shoe that is much harder to produce correctly? It's much more difficult to make a perfect shoe than a "deliberately" destroyed shoe.

Oooh, so problematic. We do not live in the world of forms, sadly. Perfection is rather context-dependent, don't you think?

Most of the "artisinal" brands you've mentioned - two, rather; A1923 and CCP - are pretty much focused solely on the material, and this is reflected both in conversations with the designers (for whatever worth you place on those) and through the styling and presentation of the shoe. Now, I don't own any CCP (although I have a pair of A1923 that are very impressive in most aspects), although any discussion with Fuuma or even SZ's Christian - or, in fact, a browse through SZ's CCP thread - will suggest that his pursuit of a singular (and singularly unforgiving) silhouette and a linked aesthetic is both a pursuit of perfection and rather inescapable.

Now, obviously, you've picked and chosen two specific brands and left out many others, some of which are more "distressed" or less "distressed" - but what it sounds like to me is that you're focused on the shape - and the shape you're used to, despit your forays into the bizarre, is specifically an MC style (in the SF lexicon, at least). When you want the perfect leather for a "destroyed" boot, it's obviously not going to be the same kind of leather as you'd use for an EG shoe, as nice as they may be. Nor is the shape going to be similar. Everyone here has read the arguments about price v. construction a thousand times, and if we even approach it I'm sure Hendrix will blow a gasket. I believe it's worth noting that - to my knowledge at least - A1923 is made by a single pair of hands (potentially a couple pairs? Anyone); every shoe. All of these people are people who know how to make shoes. For those of us - myself most definitely included - who don't have the chance to go look at CCP, A1923, Layer-O, KKA, etc. in person, it all becomes a bit abstract, yes - but certainly no more abstract than a pair of EGs.

So, tldr; I'm not entirely sure what your argument is - that you don't like the treatments on most of these leathers? If so, don't buy the boots. That you don't like the non-traditional shape? If so, don't buy the boots. If you're in pursuit of the "perfect" destroyed boot, I'm not sure why anyone would be using Edward Green as a jumping-off point. And construction as the sole judge of a shoe's worth is definitely not something that I subscribe to; nor, I think, do most denizens of the SWD underverse. But, just so you know, I think it's all too expensive as well. Particularly Guidi, which has always seemed to me the Allen Edmonds of the SZ world - although there are many models I lust after. Well, two. But still.
post #4526 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post

But, just so you know, I think it's all too expensive as well. Particularly Guidi, which has always seemed to me the Allen Edmonds of the SZ world - although there are many models I lust after. Well, two. But still.

 

Do you mind elaborating? 

post #4527 of 13248
Not sure I can. I've never owned a pair, so it's all hearsay - but they're the most "mass produced," seem to have the least amount of hand-finishing, and the "simplest" construction. I'm ignorant, though, so this is all based on pure conjecture.
post #4528 of 13248
^ ^ ^
I do somewhat agree with Guidi, I was wearing my pair this weekend and just looking at it, I immediately notice the eyelets aren't even and looks like it is slapped on more haphazardly.
post #4529 of 13248
Synth I ask that you please come down from the highs of huffing fumes from making your own clothing and re read my entire post carefully.
post #4530 of 13248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Oooh, so problematic. We do not live in the world of forms, sadly. Perfection is rather context-dependent, don't you think?
Most of the "artisinal" brands you've mentioned - two, rather; A1923 and CCP - are pretty much focused solely on the material, and this is reflected both in conversations with the designers (for whatever worth you place on those) and through the styling and presentation of the shoe. Now, I don't own any CCP (although I have a pair of A1923 that are very impressive in most aspects), although any discussion with Fuuma or even SZ's Christian - or, in fact, a browse through SZ's CCP thread - will suggest that his pursuit of a singular (and singularly unforgiving) silhouette and a linked aesthetic is both a pursuit of perfection and rather inescapable.
Now, obviously, you've picked and chosen two specific brands and left out many others, some of which are more "distressed" or less "distressed" - but what it sounds like to me is that you're focused on the shape - and the shape you're used to, despit your forays into the bizarre, is specifically an MC style (in the SF lexicon, at least). When you want the perfect leather for a "destroyed" boot, it's obviously not going to be the same kind of leather as you'd use for an EG shoe, as nice as they may be. Nor is the shape going to be similar. Everyone here has read the arguments about price v. construction a thousand times, and if we even approach it I'm sure Hendrix will blow a gasket. I believe it's worth noting that - to my knowledge at least - A1923 is made by a single pair of hands (potentially a couple pairs? Anyone); every shoe. All of these people are people who know how to make shoes. For those of us - myself most definitely included - who don't have the chance to go look at CCP, A1923, Layer-O, KKA, etc. in person, it all becomes a bit abstract, yes - but certainly no more abstract than a pair of EGs.
So, tldr; I'm not entirely sure what your argument is - that you don't like the treatments on most of these leathers? If so, don't buy the boots. That you don't like the non-traditional shape? If so, don't buy the boots. If you're in pursuit of the "perfect" destroyed boot, I'm not sure why anyone would be using Edward Green as a jumping-off point. And construction as the sole judge of a shoe's worth is definitely not something that I subscribe to; nor, I think, do most denizens of the SWD underverse. But, just so you know, I think it's all too expensive as well. Particularly Guidi, which has always seemed to me the Allen Edmonds of the SZ world - although there are many models I lust after. Well, two. But still.

Synthese, you have very good and valid points, most of which i agree with. But, you missed the fact that all Moo was saying is that the price point is too high. We all agree with that. Moo wasnt arguing either he was comparing elite of MC side to elite of SW&D side and saying that sw&d elite is higher priced. I think the main difference is that CCP/A1923 are hand made by one person (pretty sure CCP us as well). MA+ is done in a high end factory and i'd venture to say the same thing of Layer-0 but am not sure about that.

Next topic...Guidi, I agree that they are saturating the market but maintaing their price point well, they are the most unstructured of the "distressed" brands. For me, i tried them on but couldnt go with it.

FYI i own a A1923 and the quality is awesome, I also own a top notch Carmina boot and same thing quality is awesome, price diff was about $300, i guess 300 went into the pocket of the guy making my shoe vs guys making my shoe, im ok with that...
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