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The Official Artisanal "streetwear" footwear (boots, shoes, sandals) thread (Guidi, CCP, Augusta, M.A.+, M Moria, Carpe Diem, etc..) - Page 1335

post #20011 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post

If that's the same video sinnedk posted a year ago then it's definitely Goodyear.

That's not to say they don't do other constructions but everything I've seen from guidi is Goodyear.

It looked like Goodyear to me, but the cutting just gave me too much of a headache to say for sure.  Honestly, both Blake Rapid and Goodyear are pretty decent construction methods.

post #20012 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

It looked like Goodyear to me, but the cutting just gave me too much of a headache to say for sure.  Honestly, both Blake Rapid and Goodyear are pretty decent construction methods.

The welt and upper are being stitched to the gemming at 1:33 = definitely goodyear.

Blake rapid > goodyear, all other things being equal.
post #20013 of 22249
Why is blake rapid superior
post #20014 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

Why is blake rapid superior

more precise i believe
post #20015 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeen7908 View Post

Why is blake rapid superior

in goodyear, "gemming" - a canvas strip - is glued to the insole, and then the welt and upper are stitched to the gemming. The outsole is then stitched to the welt. In "handwelted" technique the canvas strip doesn't exist - it's a ridge carved into the leather of the insole. But this takes a long time to do so the factory approach is to just glue on a canvas strip to hold the welt and upper to the insole.

In blake rapid, a midsole is stitched to the upper and insole, and then the outsole is stitched to the midsole. There is no welt, but the midsole effectively takes the place of the welt.

In GY the canvas strip basically holds the shoe together during resolings. Canvas can tear or come unglued from the insole more easily than a leather midsole can. In blake rapid the midsole holds the shoe together.

So yeah, all other things being equal (which they often aren't), blake rapid is the superior factory method.

I posted diagrams in this thread a couple of years ago.
post #20016 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post


in goodyear, "gemming" - a canvas strip - is glued to the insole, and then the welt and upper are stitched to the gemming. The outsole is then stitched to the welt. In "handwelted" technique the canvas strip doesn't exist - it's a ridge carved into the leather of the insole. But this takes a long time to do so the factory approach is to just glue on a canvas strip to hold the welt and upper to the insole.

In blake rapid, a midsole is stitched to the upper and insole, and then the outsole is stitched to the midsole. There is no welt, but the midsole effectively takes the place of the welt.

In GY the canvas strip basically holds the shoe together during resolings. Canvas can tear or come unglued from the insole more easily than a leather midsole can. In blake rapid the midsole holds the shoe together.

So yeah, all other things being equal (which they often aren't), blake rapid is the superior factory method.

I posted diagrams in this thread a couple of years ago.

All this is true, but I've found that the tension on the leather can cause problems with Blake stitched shoes.  Maybe it's just my personal experience, of course.

post #20017 of 22249
blake is not the same as blake rapid.

But yeah, all other things being equal, which they generally aren't. Pretty often it's the upper that will fail before anything else on mid-low level factory shoes so the method of outsole attachment isn't a big deal. I've found that the plasic toe and heel stiffeners can cause quite a bit of friction that breaks through the liner and upper after about 4-5 years of wear.
post #20018 of 22249
Exactly-- if anyone has had a welt-related issue before the upper went away with the boots discussed, speak up now. So many people vibram so resoling isn't an issue. Most is just personal preference or whatever, since most people (including me) can barely tell the difference
post #20019 of 22249
nah I've definitely had a welt issue before the upper gave way.

so many of the English shoes have excellent upper construction and then use GY welting which doesn't make sense to me. Worse, they market GY as the benchmark when realistically it's just another factory method with its compromises.

I basically don't think it makes sense in high-end shoes. By that I mean SF high end shoes, not normal people high end shoes. I don't see the point in hand cutting the leather, hand-lasting etc (which does make the upper last longer as you can select better leather and orient the fibres properly) etc and then using GY welting which can fail. If you're going to do that just make the whole shoe with machines (which I don't have a problem with). Machine cut the uppers, machine last, machine make etc. I'm fine with that.
post #20020 of 22249
who swooped on the a1923 "veal" dual zips?

lol8[1].gif @ veal
post #20021 of 22249


ha. no kidding. I walked across the Brooklyn Bridge in my new m.a+ staple boots, that wasn't a great idea.

post #20022 of 22249
bringing the magic / red boots stomp


waywt crosspost
post #20023 of 22249
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post

blake is not the same as blake rapid.

But yeah, all other things being equal, which they generally aren't. Pretty often it's the upper that will fail before anything else on mid-low level factory shoes so the method of outsole attachment isn't a big deal. I've found that the plasic toe and heel stiffeners can cause quite a bit of friction that breaks through the liner and upper after about 4-5 years of wear.

Yeah, I know, but I've seen many more issues with the tension tearing the upper on the blake stitch/Mckay stitch of a blake rapid shoe.  I mean, in a way, it's inevitable that it will happen occasionally when garment weight leather is used on footwear, but I'd rather mitigate that.  I've rarely see the upper failing on a welted boot, but on any boot where the upper is attached directly without a welt, it happens regularly.  It happens less on stitchdown only because the companies that use stitchdown are typically using very heavy leathers (Viberg, for example) used to building workboots for heavy use.

 

Truthfully, both blake rapid and Goodyear welt are decent construction methods.  Handwelting is just not generally a feasible way to produce shoes.

post #20024 of 22249
The upper isn't sewn to the welt on GY shoes, it's sewn to the gemming (as is the welt). Blake and handwelting both sew the upper directly to the insole. I don't see why this would put more tension on the upper than GY.


opinion as a consumer that if the shoes are more than about a grand they should be handwelted - but every company will have their own expenses and budget.
post #20025 of 22249

I know this is a huge long shot-- But is there any non-leather artisanal footwear out there that anyone can think of? Like waxed canvas, nylon, or some sort of synthetic? Even if it's a leather sole with a non-leather upper?

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