Putting on the Ritz - Morning Dress in America

I notice that Mr. Cooper wears a wing collar with his morning attire in both photos. I was under the impression that people considered the wing collar to be a faux pas or at least an anachronism with morning clothes by this time.

I am not familiar with the movie. Are Irving Berlin's lyrics written about this Gary Cooper movie/story? Perhaps the storyline depicts an earlier time not contemporary with Mr. Cooper?




Are you able to offer some sartorial light for my dark nook of confusion?
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Thanks. So . . . the debate continues! Even a Club Collar enters the fray at Ascot.

I just visited Mr. Gilchrist's rumpus room and saw your remarks among the others there. http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...252#post450252

It's just after three p.m. Nevertheless, Mr. Kabbaz's banter about a martini does sound rather appealing. I am at the office though. So, I shall wait until later to indulge!
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If I ever saw someone walking down Park in that level of dress, I would probably shed of tear of joy.

Wing collars. I know you'll come back some day. Please.

Arg

It is in my intentions to have a morning dress made sooner or later... I'm just debating with myself over a traditional morning coat, a mid-gray morning suit, or a black lounge jacket with striped trousers.
Of course the goal is to look uniquely sharp at daytime celebratory occurrences without looking like a confused time traveler. I'm tending toward the mid-gray morning suit as per http://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Morning_Dress.htm.

Also, I have trouble placing the cravat in formality. It's definitely not for black tie, it not being black, nor a tie... Does it really work with morning formal wear? What sort of collar do you need for cravats?

A tiny quibble. I think it's supposed to be "High hats and Arrow collars", a reference to a very popular brand of detachable collars at the time.

I have to admit that I've been thinking more and more about getting a morning coat made too. I've taken the plunge with regard to tails (white tie): I had one made last year.

I'm struck by the irony that today, there are relatively more occasions for white tie than there are for morning dress, especially given that the former is more formal than the latter. I received delivery of my tails in November and I've already had two occasions to wear it (there was actually a third event calling for white tie but I was out of town). And there are at least two white tie events coming up between now and March.

But morning dress? I struggle to think of any occasion when it would be appropriate to put one on, short of attending Royal Ascot or my own wedding. Unless people are actually wearing morning dress to Royal Ascot equivalents in the U.S. e.g. the Kentucky Derby (which I doubt) I can't quite imagine how owning morning dress would actually make sense today.

And if I ever were to get a morning coat made, I would ditch the cravat and wing collar option and go the modern route: turndown collar and a tie.

The safest route seems the most boring, the black lounge jacket with striped trousers.

Even though they are rather obscure, President Reagan wore them to his inauguration, which kind of validates them, and they are subtle enough not to offend those not in the know, while sending a message to those who are.

I'm having a black (dark charcoal actually) getup made for my upcoming wedding. Even though I'm in the UK, I can't see myself going to enough morning coat events to justify the cost of having one made. I had been doubting a shorter morning cutaway, as provided by Favourbrook, but decided that in the end, black lounge would be slightly more versatile. These are the fabrics and the tie I intend to wear:



It is, however, wrong to think that white tie is more formal than morning dress. They are equally formal, the difference lies only in the time of day at which they are worn.

In order not to look like a traveler from faraway times, I'd concur. Try to look like this:



Not this:

 

Your best bet to remain under the fashionista radar is to wear a stroller [black lounge with striped, check, or plaid trousers] and avoid the wearing of a cutaway as required by the other two choices of morningwear.  A morning suit is a very limited utility and practically an orphan, even where it is embraced and respected. Not all morningwear has a practical application at present, except a stroller which works very well for nearly every day occasion from board meetings to making social calls.

 

I wear a stroller as morningwear all the time and no one is the wiser, especially if I leave the waistcoat at home or replace with a cardigan for additional warmth.

 

I most commonly wear a black cashmere SB jacket with black and white Glen plaid trousers to good effect in the winter when stateside for many day to early evening events including calling on friends. When the event is somewhat more formal than attending a gathering or informal reception, such as a matinee performance of some sort, I replace the plaid trousers with others which are appropriately striped and put on a waistcoat.  I will do this until Easter or so, when I put on the single breasted peak lapel black worsted tropical jacket I maintain for warmer weather.

 

The single breasted peak lapel jackets now in fashion are a close approximation of a stroller and near dead on when black fabric of some sort, assuming they lack hacking pockets and such. But then again, maybe you do intend to wear your stroller on horseback where these features might be useful. If you go double breasted, you can leave the waistcoat at home and enjoy fairly warm weather with your stroller if it is a tropical weave.

 

Houndstooth trousers will also supply a proper look when the pattern and color are correct. A SB notch lapel will definitely keep you under the radar, even if it is not entirely correct. But remember, a stroller is IN-formal wear just like dinner jackets and tuxedos, so a little rule bending is more than acceptable.

 

Good luck finding the proper gloves to wear with your stroller as outerwear. It is very tricky business, but possible. While gray lambskin gloves will work, those made from yellow peccary are the outstanding choice.

A leaf can be taken out of other countries' books: this is the new government of Japan:

Looks like a picture of a board of directors. That's how they dress there for their meetings, in contrast to the a board meeting I attended last summer in California where one interesting chap wore flip-flops, because he could.

 

I was at the beach that morning as well, but I somehow found time to tie my shoes.

Those fabrics look great, especially the stripes for the trousers. Is that pattern what would be referred to as a "Cashmere Stripe"?

What sort of waistcoat are you thinking?