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Phil Collins vs. Genesis - Page 3

post #31 of 42
6/2/11 at 7:37am
Gabriel was everything but good at singing: his genesis made the history of progressive rock, though, with some kick-ass musicians: listen to tony banks in the firth of filth or almost any solo playing his 12-string guitar combined with a 6-string bass live in the 70s.

phil collins can sing decently, but save a trick of the tail and wind & wuthering the band progressively gravitated towards pop-rock, duke being the first milestone of their pop era (80s).

basically there are (have been) a progressive-rock genesis and a pop genesis, and it's up to the listener to choose which one they like better; however, collins is a dickhead for having transformed genesis from a great progressive rock group in what he needed for his own commercial launch.
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post #32 of 42
6/2/11 at 8:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wootx View Post
Gabriel was everything but good at singing: his genesis made the history of progressive rock, though, with some kick-ass musicians: listen to tony banks in the firth of filth or almost any solo playing his 12-string guitar combined with a 6-string bass live in the 70s.

phil collins can sing decently, but save a trick of the tail and wind & wuthering the band progressively gravitated towards pop-rock, duke being the first milestone of their pop era (80s).

basically there are (have been) a progressive-rock genesis and a pop genesis, and it's up to the listener to choose which one they like better; however, collins is a dickhead for having transformed genesis from a great progressive rock group in what he needed for his own commercial launch.

I think it's beyond question that Phil Collins is a self-serving dickhole behind the scenes. But what do you think of his music? He was definitely a driving factor toward the popification of Genesis, but you could just as easily argue that he did pop better than anyone else out there in those same years.
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post #33 of 42
6/2/11 at 11:44am
^ collins plays drums fairly well, and i wish he sticked to that. most of the people i know who like gabriel's genesis get upset when someone talks about how they love genesis and then mention an 80s single. other people actually like collins better and blame gabriel for being too much theatrical. others also don't get progressive rock and say old genesis was shit. usually these 'others" are those who can't distinguish bass and guitar sounds. which category do you fall in? :P
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post #34 of 42
6/2/11 at 7:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wootx View Post
^ collins plays drums fairly well, and i wish he sticked to that. most of the people i know who like gabriel's genesis get upset when someone talks about how they love genesis and then mention an 80s single. other people actually like collins better and blame gabriel for being too much theatrical. others also don't get progressive rock and say old genesis was shit. usually these 'others" are those who can't distinguish bass and guitar sounds. which category do you fall in? :P
I prefer Gabriel-era Genesis and Phil Collins as a solo artist, and I say this because I think it was the best use of either of their talents. The two had fundamentally different musical philosophies only superficially linked by an occasionally similar sound. I think this corresponds to your view, more or less, though I don't know if you like PC's solo pop work, and it sounds like you might not. For the record, PC was an excellent drummer, and a supremely overindulgent one. When he was off doing his own thing, the bombastic and poppy drums he built into his songs made a lot more sense and worked a lot more harmoniously, almost like a fish back in its native waters after a few years in a tank. Genesis was not a good fit for him, or vice versa, which is ironic because he still occasionally tours with Genesis while Gabriel has long since divorced himself from it.
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post #35 of 42
6/2/11 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Carlos View Post
Genesis was not a good fit for him, or vice versa, which is ironic because he still occasionally tours with Genesis while Gabriel has long since divorced himself from it.

I believe he's called it quits (saw an interview where he said he's not going on tour nor writing new songs ever again)

Quote:
Greetings to all, I've decided to write this in response to the articles that surfaced last weekend regarding my retirement. Why they were printed at all is a mystery, as I haven't spoken to anybody in the press for a few months.

However, many of the articles printed over the last few months have ended up painting a picture of me that is more than a little distorted. Therefore, I would like to add my comments and try to explain again my reasons for calling it a day.


1/ I'm not stopping because of dodgy reviews or bad treatment in the press.

2/ I'm not stopping because I don't feel loved, I know I still have a very large fanbase that loves what I do. Thank you.

3/ I'm not stopping because I don't fit in, this was proved with "Going Back" reaching No 1 in the UK, and doing incredibly well worldwide.

4/ I'm not stopping so I can dive full time into my interest for the Alamo.

I am stopping so I can be a full time father to my two young sons on a daily basis.

Some of the things mentioned above have been said by me in various interviews, but said as asides with a smile on my face and in passing. They were not meant to be "headlines", they were small parts of a conversation. This clearly doesn't come over in print and I should know better.

However, the result is that I have ended up sounding like a tormented weirdo who thinks he was at the Alamo in another life, who feels very sorry for himself, and is retiring hurt because of the bad press over the years.

None of this is true.

Thanks for all your messages on the Forum regarding this stuff, it means a lot that you care.
But there's no need for the straitjacket !


PC x


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post #36 of 42
6/2/11 at 11:51pm
Thread Starter 
Jesus, that letter makes him sound like a total nutjob.
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post #37 of 42
6/3/11 at 1:21am
yup, but I did see that cnn interview where they were suggesting he made an album of remakes because he finds it futile to create an all original album because of all the jokes and snark about him, and then talked about how the gallagher brothers started the bandwagon.
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post #38 of 42
6/3/11 at 6:16am
Yeah, I'm not that into pop music, but I sometimes try and appreciate a song or two that -- even though far from my idea of music -- are well made imho. oh btw that letter is ridiculous lol
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post #39 of 42
6/3/11 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Carlos View Post
Jesus, that letter makes him sound like a total nutjob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wootx View Post
Yeah, I'm not that into pop music, but I sometimes try and appreciate a song or two that -- even though far from my idea of music -- are well made imho.

oh btw that letter is ridiculous lol

Phil Collins' comments in that letter didn't sound strange to me. I believe they were made in reference to articles like this, which did sound strange:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...ic-career.html

Quote:
The 60-year-old star says he feels it is "a good time to stop" making music, adding: "I don't think anyone's going to miss me."

He has hearing problems, a dislocated vertebra and nerve damage in his hands, all brought on by a lifetime spent hunched behind a drum kit.

The songwriter also claims that listeners have grown "sick" of him and that there is no longer a place for him in the current music scene.

"I look at the MTV Music Awards and I think: 'I can't be in the same business as this'," Collins says in an interview with FHM magazine.

"I don't really belong to that world and I don't think anyone's going to miss me. I'm much happier just to write myself out of the script entirely.

"I'll go on a mysterious biking holiday and never return. That would be a great way to end the story, wouldn't it?" Collins, who lives alone in Switzerland after divorcing his third wife in 2007, has enjoyed huge popularity over 40 years as both a drummer and singer with the rock band Genesis and then as one of the biggest-earning solo artists of all time.

He claims that it was this success and the overplaying of his music which made people "want to strangle" him. "It's hardly surprising that people grew to hate me. I'm sorry that it was all so successful. I honestly didn't mean it to happen like that," he says.
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post #40 of 42
6/3/11 at 9:15am
Thread Starter 
Jesus.

Part of me is like, "QQ more, Phil Collins. "

And part of me is like, "Phil Collins is so batshit that he is kind of awesome."
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post #41 of 42
6/3/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post
I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.

Same here, though I really like "Land of Confusion" most of all. Collin's solo stuff isn't really for me.
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post #42 of 42
6/3/11 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Carlos View Post
Jesus.

Part of me is like, "QQ more, Phil Collins. "

And part of me is like, "Phil Collins is so batshit that he is kind of awesome."
ahah same here
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