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Paleo diet - Page 12

post #166 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post
Carbohydrates brought sin into the world, polluted the sky, and broke up the Beatles. Also, if you look closely at photos of the Kennedy assassination, you can clearly see a loaf of corn bread behind the grassy knoll.

post #167 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
While I highly respect your obvious advanced education and thought process in this could you just maybe provide a link that actually says this? Can you maybe check into the whole kidney absorption thing for me too? Because I once heard that their just might be a link between DM and kidney disease which, you know, might inhibit absorbtion of ascorbic acid. Basically, you're taking a sequella and telling me the cause is the premorbid condition. You're making no logical sense. Actually, I think I need to back out before I just come out and tell you I think you're full of shit. You haven't addressed the fact that most of the best Vit C. sources are also loaded with fructose and glucose, for instance.
You know, I started reading your reply with a glimmer of hope that we could actually have a conversation without you going out of your way to insult me and my intelligence. Unfortunately, I see that can't be the case. What I have described is pretty straightforward. What more do you want to know in regards to kidney absorption? As far as fructose and glucose, I'm not sure as to exactly what argument you are trying to make. Fruits and vegetables do contain these sugars, and they do contain high amounts of vitamin C, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are essential for human health or that you need them in your diet for the sake of their vitamin and mineral content. The diseases we use these foods to fight (heart disease, cancer, obesity) because of their wonderful antioxidant and phytochemical content, are very the same diseases caused by the refined carbohydrates themselves. Also, no one is saying that the fructose or glucose content of fruit is what's causing any of these issues in the first place. The thing to remember about these food's sugar content is that it is naturally occurring and bound up with fiber, so less quickly digested by the body which causes a much slower and more subtle rise in blood sugar levels. The fructose and glucose to be concerned with is that which is found in sucrose and HFCS.
post #168 of 454
I'm doing Paleo 2.0 at the moment and have been for the last 5 weeks and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised, I have lost 6kg, 4 in the first week, though I gain a bit again, as I started to work out again after an injury, plus some skin issues I had on my arms have cleared up completely, the first 3 weeks I was at 100%, but for the last couple I have been slacking of on the food and have been eating some bread here and there, but all in all it works very well.

The biggest change for me personally was going from eating all day to have a meal at noon and one at eight o clock and the not again until noon next day and that fruit such as apples aren't allowed due to the high amount of sugar, I was a big fruit eater prior to starting, but I think not eating fruit has helped a lot with my skin, also due to I'm doing weight loss and not muscle build up, I can't have potatoes due to the starch

I'm definitely going to continue to do this in a 80/20 ratio and add potatoes when I have reached my weight loss goal 68-70kg (I'm at 76 now).
post #169 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm84321 View Post
You know, I started reading your reply with a glimmer of hope that we could actually have a conversation without you going out of your way to insult me and my intelligence. Unfortunately, I see that can't be the case.

What I have described is pretty straightforward. What more do you want to know in regards to kidney absorption?

As far as fructose and glucose, I'm not sure as to exactly what argument you are trying to make. Fruits and vegetables do contain these sugars, and they do contain high amounts of vitamin C, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are essential for human health or that you need them in your diet for the sake of their vitamin and mineral content. The diseases we use these foods to fight (heart disease, cancer, obesity) because of their wonderful antioxidant and phytochemical content, are very the same diseases caused by the carbohydrates themselves.

Half the time you contradict yourself. For instance, compare the two bolded statements of yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mm84321 View Post
Interestingly enough, the vitamin-deficiency related diseases you've mentioned can actually, in a large part, be the result of the addition of sugar and flour into the diet. For example, scurvy, or a deficiency of vitamin C, we know can be ameliorated by the addition of fresh fruits and vegetables to the diet. However, this does not mean the disease itself is caused by the lack of fruits and vegetables in the first place. Rather, a carbohydrate rich diet will actually inhibit the proper absorption of the critical vitamins and minerals, which is really what's causing the whole deficiency in the first place.

Again, how can you say so many people in the developed world eat too many carbs then tell me that too many carbs cause scurvy, then tell me all these people with metabolic disorder, eating too many carbs don't have scurvy?

You can't pick out the flaws in this?
post #170 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Half the time you contradict yourself. For instance, compare the two bolded statements of yours.



Again, how can you say so many people in the developed world eat too many carbs then tell me that too many carbs cause scurvy, then tell me all these people with metabolic disorder, eating too many carbs don't have scurvy?

You can't pick out the flaws in this?

I made this addition to my original post:

Quote:
Also, no one is saying that the fructose or glucose content of fruit is what's causing any of these issues in the first place. The thing to remember about these food's sugar content is that it is naturally occurring and bound up with fiber, so less quickly digested by the body which causes a much slower and more subtle rise in blood sugar levels. The fructose and glucose to be concerned with is that which is found in sucrose and HFCS.
post #171 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm84321 View Post
I made this addition to my original post:

That addition does not fix your "logic." It's okay.
post #172 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
That addition does not fix your "logic." It's okay.
I never said that everyone who eats a carbohydrate rich diet is going to develop scurvy. What I did say was that scurvy can be induced by a diet rich in sugars and starch (which has been shown in experiments), and that it is more about what is present in the diet (sugar), than what is lacking (vitamin C from fruit and vegetables).
post #173 of 454
please show a study where scientist were able to induce scurvy in humans by feeding them massive amounts of starch and sugar but still kept an average intake of vitamin c as for gluten allergies, food allergies in general are on the rise (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db10.htm). this maybe for example be explained by the hygeine hypothesis which proposes lack of childhood exposure to disease causing agents suppresses immune system development
post #174 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post
please show a study where scientist were able to induce scurvy in humans by feeding them massive amounts of starch and sugar but still kept an average intake of vitamin c

Here's a case from the exact opposite:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18793598

post #175 of 454
^ i dunno. she might have developed scurvy because she didnt eat enough fruits and vegetables on the keto diet, not that a low carb keto diet itself caused scurvy
post #176 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post
please show a study where scientist were able to induce scurvy in humans by feeding them massive amounts of starch and sugar but still kept an average intake of vitamin c
There have been exactly four experiments in the medical literature in which the goal was to induce scurvy in human subjects--in one, four, twenty, and four subjects respectively. In each case, the goal was accomplished and the diets were carbohydrate and/or sugar-rich. I can't find the studies themselves for public access on the internet, but they are referenced to in Kenneth J. Carpenter's The History of Scurvy and Vitamin C if you are interested. http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledg...e_locale=en_GB
post #177 of 454
Yeah, but being so carb deprived for so long, you'd figure her body was absorb the mo-fo out of any ascorbic acid!
post #178 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Here's a case from the exact opposite:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18793598


Let's just use common sense for a second here: From an evolutionary standpoint, would it make sense for a vitamin deficiency related disease to be caused in humans by eating a diet rich in fat and protein (you know, the stuff found in nature)? Or, would it be a bit more reasonable to assume that the addition of some other substance, like white sugar and flour, that is a processed and refined product, would be causing these complications?
post #179 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm84321 View Post
There have been exactly four experiments in the medical literature in which the goal was to induce scurvy in human subjects--in one, four, twenty, and four subjects respectively. In each case, the goal was accomplished and the diets were carbohydrate and/or sugar-rich. I can't find the studies themselves for public access on the internet, but they are referenced to in Kenneth J. Carpenter's The History of Scurvy and Vitamin C if you are interested.

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledg...e_locale=en_GB

Did their diets also involve no vitamin C?
post #180 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm84321 View Post
There have been exactly four experiments in the medical literature in which the goal was to induce scurvy in human subjects--in one, four, twenty, and four subjects respectively. In each case, the goal was accomplished and the diets were carbohydrate and/or sugar-rich. I can't find the studies themselves for public access on the internet, but they are referenced to in Kenneth J. Carpenter's The History of Scurvy and Vitamin C if you are interested.

http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledg...e_locale=en_GB

This does not indicate it meets the parameters asked for.
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