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Pacquiao/Mosley - Page 4

post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
It's no secret that Floyd has a better jab than manny. You've probably watched enough of manny to know his best punches are his str8 left hand and right hook. They even gave manny a toy jab in the fight night game to simulate real life. You mentioned Floyd never dealing with someone who threw a shit load of punches at him. I brought an example to help you and show you that he did fight someone that tried that. He ended up winning too. Now your feelings are hurt over it. We can go through more fights if you want. Marquez lowered pac's punch output by countering and using movement, the same kind Mosley did last night. Cotto lowered pac's punch output by hitting and moving for a bit. We saw what Mosley did to pac's volume of punches last night. 619/12 = is about 52 punches a round on manny's end. His # of punches drop if you counter and/or use movement.
So let me get this straight: You're telling that Floyd Mayweather, a brilliant defensive boxer and tactician will...WAIT FOR IT......find a way to limit Pacqiao's punching? AMAZING! I guess Freddy Roach should just throw in the towel beforehand because this fight is obviously over. I never questioned the fact that Mayweather will be effective against Pacquiao, at least to some extent. But there's a reason people have been fawning of Pacquiao for years now and that many (if not most) experts consider him the #q PFP fighter in the world. To claim that Mayweather will toy with him because he can find a way to limit his punching is like saying Pacquiao will toy with Mayweather because he'll find a way to attack him with multiple combos. Neither holds water. Look, you're a homer. I think anyone on here can see this and you've made it quite clear that this "debate" were having isn't really that objective, at least on your part. I find it amazing, however, that Mayweather backers can defend a guy who has looked fairly unimpressive over his last 5-10 fights while dismissing a guy who is an 8 division world champion. If that doesn't make you take him seriously, I guess nothing will.
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
So let me get this straight: You're telling that Floyd Mayweather, a brilliant defensive boxer and tactician will...WAIT FOR IT......find a way to limit Pacqiao's punching? AMAZING! I guess Freddy Roach should just throw in the towel beforehand because this fight is obviously over.
Floyd makes everyone throw less. What are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
I never questioned the fact that Mayweather will be effective against Pacquiao, at least to some extent. But there's a reason people have been fawning of Pacquiao for years now and that many (if not most) experts consider him the #q PFP fighter in the world. To claim that Mayweather will toy with him because he can find a way to limit his punching is like saying Pacquiao will toy with Mayweather because he'll find a way to attack him with multiple combos. Neither holds water.
manny's offense isn't as effective when you counter, move, and/or clinch. Marquez showed it. Shane showed it. Floyd is good at countering, moving, and clinching. Watch his fights with Hatton and Marquez.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
Look, you're a homer. I think anyone on here can see this and you've made it quite clear that this "debate" were having isn't really that objective, at least on your part. I find it amazing, however, that Mayweather backers can defend a guy who has looked fairly unimpressive over his last 5-10 fights while dismissing a guy who is an 8 division world champion. If that doesn't make you take him seriously, I guess nothing will.
I think you're angry because Floyd looks so good in the majority of his wins, and manny always leaves the ring with scratches. Floyd took Mosley, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir, and Judah all to school. Only guy he really didn't look so good against was Oscar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzyle View Post
And Boxing fans say MMA is boring...
Hopefully, no one had to pay for last night's boxing match.
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
whoops, I meant Mosley. Floyd lands multiple shots on manny when the time comes.

We can all land shots but you have to have power behind those shots. Not saying Mayweather can't knock Pacman out but Pac has proven himself to be a helluva fighter and KO pac is no easy task.

Mayweather doesn't wan to lose plain and simple and he knows losing to Pac is not a possibility but a probability.
post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Floyd took Mosley, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir, and Judah all to school. Only guy he really didn't look so good against was Oscar.

Dela Hoya, at the time, was on the twlight of his career when they fought.
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon8 View Post
We can all land shots but you have to have power behind those shots. Not saying Mayweather can't knock Pacman out but Pac has proven himself to be a helluva fighter and KO pac is no easy task.

Mayweather doesn't wan to lose plain and simple and he knows losing to Pac is not a possibility but a probability.
KO isn't the only way to win though. Floyd doesn't go for KOs much. We seen Morales beat pac by points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon8 View Post
Dela Hoya, at the time, was on the twlight of his career when they fought.
Oscar to me is someone who somewhat fits the archetype of a fighter that can trouble Floyd. Taller man, decent defense, and a great jab.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
KO isn't the only way to win though. Floyd doesn't go for KOs much. We seen Morales beat pac by points. Oscar to me is someone who somewhat fits the archetype of a fighter that can trouble Floyd. Taller man, decent defense, and a great jab.
To recap: - Mayweather's inability to KO people is because he doesn't feel like it but Pacquiao's seeming inability to dominate Mosley is because he sucks. - Pacquiao's domination of Hatton and Oscar was due to Mayweather softening them up for him whereas his defeat against Morales, six years ago, was more representative of his true skills. - Punching accuracy is far, far more important than who actually wins the fight. Sounds like the usual Mayweather fanboy doctrine. These debates always devolve into the worst type of blind homerism. I'm not a big fan of either of these fighters but I'm not stupid enough to claim that either one of them is clearly superior to the other.
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
KO isn't the only way to win though. Floyd doesn't go for KOs much. We seen Morales beat pac by points.

Oscar to me is someone who somewhat fits the archetype of a fighter that can trouble Floyd. Taller man, decent defense, and a great jab.

Pac has evolved has a more disciplined fighter since that loss. He's evolved to be a better fighter than before.

Dela Hoya was past his prime when he fought Mayweather despite being taller, decent defense and a great jab. Remember it was a split decision in that fight.

Mayweather will never fight Pac for the same reasons Roddick Bowe never fought Lennox Lewis despite all the trash talk. Will lose.
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
To recap:

- Mayweather's inability to KO people is because he doesn't feel like it but Pacquiao's seeming inability to dominate Mosley is because he sucks.

- Pacquiao's domination of Hatton and Oscar was due to Mayweather softening them up for him whereas his defeat against Morales, six years ago, was more representative of his true skills.

- Punching accuracy is far, far more important than who actually wins the fight.


Sounds like the usual Mayweather fanboy doctrine.

These debates always devolve into the worst type of blind homerism. I'm not a big fan of either of these fighters but I'm not stupid enough to claim that either one of them is clearly superior to the other.
Now your hate for both fighters is making you blind again. You have to open up more than usual to go for a KO, this increases your chances of getting clipped back. A fighter like Mayweather is all about securing that victory. He wins and minimizes as much risk as possible in the process.

Where the hell did pac's fights with Oscar and Hatton come from? What I said is Morales beat pac by points, showing you don't need to KO his AZZ to beat him. It's not my fault Morales had the skill-set to beat him.

You're not a fan of either guy. That's why you don't have an idea of how the fight will go. You find it too hard to give either of them credit, so you just stick to the safe path and say it's a 50/50 fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon8 View Post
Pac has evolved has a more disciplined fighter since that loss. He's evolved to be a better fighter than before.

Dela Hoya was past his prime when he fought Mayweather despite being taller, decent defense and a great jab. Remember it was a split decision in that fight.

Mayweather will never fight Pac for the same reasons Roddick Bowe never fought Lennox Lewis despite all the trash talk. Will lose.
Only on the judges scorecards. Oscar only won the 2nd, 4th, and 6th rounds. If it was a prime Oscar fighting FLoyd, then Floyd would naturally have to be a younger version of himself too. A younger Floyd uses a different strategy to beat a prime Oscar.

He may have improved, but he is still troubled by people who tactically use the space inside of the boxing ring. Marquez did it in their fight 3 years ago. Shane just did it again last night. You watch manny enough. That didn't look like the usual manny ever since all his "improvements". He couldn't figure out how to mount his offense.

Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and antonio all hard more life left in their careers than the 39 year old Mosley he fought yesterday, but Mosley was the one to make his offense the least effective. The other 4 guys did it wrong and came towards him instead of taking smart steps back. Mosley cared to study the Marquez tape from 3 years ago, followed the movement, and that part worked for him.
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Now your hate for both fighters is making you blind again. You have to open up more than usual to go for a KO, this increases your chances of getting clipped back. A fighter like Mayweather is all about securing that victory. He wins and minimizes as much risk as possible in the process.

Where the hell did pac's fights with Oscar and Hatton come from? What I said is Morales beat pac by points, showing you don't need to KO his AZZ to beat him. It's not my fault Morales had the skill-set to beat him.

You're not a fan of either guy. That's why you don't have an idea of how the fight will go. You find it too hard to give either of them credit, so you just stick to the safe path and say it's a 50/50 fight.

Only on the judges scorecards. Oscar only won the 2nd, 4th, and 6th rounds. If it was a prime Oscar fighting FLoyd, then Floyd would naturally have to be a younger version of himself too. A younger Floyd uses a different strategy to beat a prime Oscar.

He may have improved, but he is still troubled by people who tactically use the space inside of the boxing ring. Marquez did it in their fight 3 years ago. Shane just did it again last night. You watch manny enough. That didn't look like the usual manny ever since all his "improvements". He couldn't figure out how to mount his offense.

Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and antonio all hard more life left in their careers than the 39 year old Mosley he fought yesterday, but Mosley was the one to make his offense the least effective. The other 4 guys did it wrong and came towards him instead of taking smart steps back. Mosley cared to study the Marquez tape from 3 years ago, followed the movement, and that part worked for him.

You make it sound like Mosley won the fight. Did you even watch the fight? It was totally one sided, a lopsided unanimous decision that featured Mosley running around in the later rounds and getting booed by the crowd for doing it.

I think Pacquiao detractors ( and there are many of them) will never be satisfied with his fights.
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
You make it sound like Mosley won the fight. Did you even watch the fight? It was totally one sided, a lopsided unanimous decision that featured Mosley running around in the later rounds and getting booed by the crowd for doing it.

I think Pacquiao detractors ( and there are many of them) will never be satisfied with his fights.
What I've been tell you the entire time is manny's offense wasn't as effective as it has been recently due to Mosley's movement. This is the exact same kind of movement Marquez from 3 years ago was using. manny simply doesn't know how to cut off the boxing ring. He still can't do it even after the improvements he has had.

manny is far from my favorite fighter, but even his fans can see he didn't look good the way he has compared to his last few fights. Are you going to show this fight to your kids in the future and tell them this is what manny is all about? I don't think so.

He's at his best with opponents who are flat footed and come towards him. He became a somebody in the boxing world after beating Barrera, who is flat footed and comes forward. Oscar and Cotto, what many people consider his best performances, also had these similarities to Barrera.

You don't like the explanation for why manny didn't look hardcore the way he typically does, he doesn't know how to fire at moving targets.
post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
What I've been tell you the entire time is manny's offense wasn't as effective as it has been recently due to Mosley's movement. This is the exact same kind of movement Marquez from 3 years ago was using. manny simply doesn't know how to cut off the boxing ring. He still can't do it even after the improvements he has had.

manny is far from my favorite fighter, but even his fans can see he didn't look good the way he has compared to his last few fights. Are you going to show this fight to your kids in the future and tell them this is what manny is all about? I don't think so.

He's at his best with opponents who are flat footed and come towards him. He became a somebody in the boxing world after beating Barrera, who is flat footed and comes forward. Oscar and Cotto, what many people consider his best performances, also had these similarities to Barrera.

You don't like the explanation for why manny didn't look hardcore the way he typically does, he doesn't know how to fire at moving targets.

Of course this wasn't his best fight. Mosley knew he had no shot and he was on his bike from the get go, trying to go the distance even if it meant losing in a UD. That doesn't say much about Pacquiao's fighting, honestly. That's like saying that Clottey "exposed" Pacquiao's weakness against defensive fighters by not getting knocked out.

Claiming that Pacquiao "didn't look good" because he couldn't knock out a guy whose entire strategy was built around NOT getting knocked out (as opposed to winning) is grasping at straws, pure and simple.
post #57 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
Of course this wasn't his best fight. Mosley knew he had no shot and he was on his bike from the get go, trying to go the distance even if it meant losing in a UD. That doesn't say much about Pacquiao's fighting, honestly. That's like saying that Clottey "exposed" Pacquiao's weakness against defensive fighters by not getting knocked out.

Claiming that Pacquiao "didn't look good" because he couldn't knock out a guy whose entire strategy was built around NOT getting knocked out (as opposed to winning) is grasping at straws, pure and simple.
Actually, there have been plenty of guys who came before him or even with him right now that can hunt down bike riders.

Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Julio Cesar Chavez, etc knew how to catch bikers.

Even defense masters like Floyd Jr and Bernard Hopkins can chase down bikers better than manny can. Mosley tried to ride his bike a few times against Floyd, but he still ate sharp, accurate, and clean punches anyways. Floyd was still able to find him.

Marquez bike riding was very similar to what Mosley did, and Juan arguably beat manny in one of their two matches. Had manny know how to cut off the boxing ring, he wouldn't have struggled with Juan the way he did.

He excels at a few things, but cutting off the ring and catching bikers isn't one of them. Similar to how Floyd is great at a lot of things, but having a lot of punching power isn't one of them.

No one is ever going to be good at everything, so a smart opponent would look to exploit their weak areas. manny can't cut off a ring, and Floyd happens to be one of the best "runners" I ever seen. Floyd fits the Black stereotype of being able to run and shoot at the same time.
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Floyd fits the Black stereotype of being able to run and shoot at the same time.

Just when I was about to refer to that comment floating around of manny not being able to beat a true black fighter, this...
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyCooN View Post
Black.

You could've just posted this and saved everyone three pages of threadshitting.

Anyone watch the Arce-Velasquez fight? Best fight of the night (not that there was much competition.
post #60 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
You could've just posted this and saved everyone three pages of threadshitting.

Anyone watch the Arce-Velasquez fight? Best fight of the night (not that there was much competition.

That fight was insane. It's simultaneously exhilarating and terrifying to watch two men just eat punches like that.
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