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Carmina Shoes - Official Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - Page 1121

post #16801 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBoxer View Post
 

 

Carina has not just magically dropped their prices by $60, I'm afraid. Select "shoe tree" when adding a model to cart--you will see the price go back up to where it was yesterday. 

 

In other words, there is no real change. They simply allow you to not take a shoe tree and thereby get a cheaper price.

 

 

Do you know this for sure or are you going based on intuition? 

 

I'm pretty sure they lowered back to $450 for shoes, $530 for ankle boots (Chelsea, chukka, etc,) and $575 for jumper-style boots, which was the supposed set standard. You'll find the same price at Skoak (pretty sure they're matching the shoe trees deal). 

 

Nonetheless, I sent an email to Carmina and will let you know what they say. Let's see how "magical" their pricing really is. 

post #16802 of 18854
GG is no longer working with shell. EG will do it only in very limited situations and at almost 100% markup. Vass will no longer use light colored Horween shell because of how much more visible hide imperfections are (thereby avoiding this very issue under debate). AE is also no longer interested in light shell colors after crazy amounts of walnut shell returns because colors were not perfectly consistent.

AE and Alden are now dying there darker colors waaaay darker in order to further conceal natural hide imperfections and avoid customer returns.

Trickers won't use Horween shell because of hide imperfections in lighter colors.

There are more, I'm sure.
post #16803 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by peppercorn78 View Post

GG is no longer working with shell. EG will do it only in very limited situations and at almost 100% markup. Vass will no longer use light colored Horween shell because of how much more visible hide imperfections are (thereby avoiding this very issue under debate). AE is also no longer interested in light shell colors after crazy amounts of walnut shell returns because colors were not perfectly consistent.

AE and Alden are now dying there darker colors waaaay darker in order to further conceal natural hide imperfections and avoid customer returns.

Trickers won't use Horween shell because of hide imperfections in lighter colors.

There are more, I'm sure.

Thanks for the examples peppercorn...funny that I have shell from pretty much all of those you listed & a few more. I don't particularly remember this being that much of an issue over the past ten years that I've been into the hobby...and I can't say that I've really ever found shell to be rare. You mention Horween several times.. do you think it's a shell issue or a Horween issue? Alden is still offering a variety of shell to include lighter colors, aren't they? As is Carmina? And of those you mentioned, only 1 (G&G) has chosen not to work with shell overall, right?
Edited by justonemore - 2/16/16 at 4:52pm
post #16804 of 18854
@saurabhRegarding the spots on natural shell those are bound to happen and probably unavoidable, even on a bespoke pair. Every pair of light shell I have has some sort of imperfection (including G&G). The jumper boot ones wouldn't bother me at all, the jodhpurs would. That said I'd live with it as you have no idea how next pair could turn out and they still look really good overall. The shell will darken a bit with wear so spots will become less visible. Your pair also seems to have minimal rippling of the shell that happens on jodhpur / Chelsea boots.

I have a pair of green shell jumpers that had "faded" toes. Epaulet remade the pair for me without me even asking though their customer service is going to be a lot better than Carmina direct. The fading was apparently from carmina lasting too quickly (per shoemaker at a trunk show).

I wouldn't let either of those spots bother me, you got two amazing make ups that are almost perfect. I personally regret not taking the flight out to NY to order without any MTO fee, especially as they allowed the nicer jodhpur pattern to be made in shell.
post #16805 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by justonemore View Post

Thanks for the examples peppercorn...funny that I have shell from pretty much all of those you listed & a few more. I don't particularly remember this being that much of an issue over the past ten years that I've been into the hobby...and I can't say that I've really ever found shell to be rare. You mention Horween several times.. do you think it's a shell issue or a Horween issue? Alden is still offering a variety of shell to include lighter colors, aren't they? As is Carmina?

Well, you've been into cordovan for 7 years longer than I have, so maybe you remember a time when lighter colors were more plentiful. Mr. Horween is on record (I did get to meet him once and he repeated this to me) stating that a global decline in horse meat consumption (including a scandal from UK producer in 2013) has affected the amount and quality of his supply of butts.

Yes, alden will still do runs of whiskey and ravello, but not nearly as often as 4 or 5 years ago. And both of these colors are getting darker in recent runs. Modern whiskey looks like older ravello, and modern ravello is looking like older cigar. Also, they are less enthusiastic about doing PTBs in Whiskey again due to lack of consistency in hides. In fact, Most recent runs of color 8 from alden (including a 975 I just got) look black under most lighting conditions. Here's a picture:



Same thing with AE. AE CEO Paul Grangaard keeps repeatedly stating that they are committing to the 3 dark colors (black burgundy and dark brown) only going forward. Edicts from Vass against using whiskey and GG against shell in general are recent developments. Both of these brand specific threads will have info from the past year.

Carmina is doing runs in more obscure colors, but in far fewer numbers than larger companies like CJ, AE, and Alden.

Anyway, There are many here who are way more info shell than I am (including you, no doubt), but I've got pairs in black (incoming), navy, burgundy, cigar, cognac, and natural (hopefully the ravello list fr 2013 I'm on will get made this year) across several different makers, and each pair has some kind of minor imperfection.

I'm not saying that you should be completely satisfied with saurabh's pairs, but I definitely would be.
Edited by peppercorn78 - 2/16/16 at 5:36pm
post #16806 of 18854


Thank you so much for your expert opinion @stevent , also to @peppercorn78 , @vmss , @bamgrinus and others. 

I do love the shell boots (both of them) as they fit really good. I had concerns about the spots esp. on Jodhpurs but i am sure overtime they will darken up with wear.

I do agree with @stevent and think that it would be very difficult to get a natural shell Jodhpurs with a flawless condition esp. with no markup as its been very difficult for any of the shoemakers to make the Jodhpur's anyways. 

I have decided to keep both of the boots and hope they get a nice patina with time.  

post #16807 of 18854

@saurabh 

 

Those are 2 of the sickest cordovan makeups I have ever saw.

 

Honestly, I have had rare shells do real weird stuff with their shades.  So, I would not trip off it at all.

 

IMHO, they will probably even out with care and maintenance anyway.

 

Thanks.

post #16808 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bespoke DJP View Post

Dear @justonemore Hi,

I would appreciate if you could share details on this longwing; I know it isn't CARMINA, but it's a very handsome pair of shoes. I just hope that if this is a web image that you have somewhere saved the shoes' provenance!



Cheers

Dimitris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes11771 View Post
 

 

My mistake.  I simply right-clicked in Chrome and selected Search Google for Image. 

 

@Bespoke DJP Maybe reach out to OP @JubeiSpiegel ?

 

 

You guys are too funny.  The shoe in question is, in fact, a photoshopped oxford version of the derby AE Larchmont (http://cdn.styleforum.net/0/01/350x239px-LL-01a47e1c_AE-Larchmont-3_4view.jpeg) - courtesy of @JubeiSpiegel.  If you had just scrolled a little further through the thread you would've seen that, and this:

 

 

post #16809 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabh View Post
 


Thank you so much for your expert opinion @stevent , also to @peppercorn78 , @vmss , @bamgrinus and others. 

I do love the shell boots (both of them) as they fit really good. I had concerns about the spots esp. on Jodhpurs but i am sure overtime they will darken up with wear.

I do agree with @stevent and think that it would be very difficult to get a natural shell Jodhpurs with a flawless condition esp. with no markup as its been very difficult for any of the shoemakers to make the Jodhpur's anyways. 

I have decided to keep both of the boots and hope they get a nice patina with time.  

 

Thanks all, really appreciate all the info and dealing with my ranting, just not satisfied with them.  Here are a few pics of the QC concerns I have.  

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is not in with the natural inconsistency of shell, but the finish of these vs. other similarly priced boots, such as C&J.  With regards to the creasing I'm seeing on this pair of jumper boots, its the exact same type of creasing I have on a pair of Alden #8 shoemart 2nds and once worn in, it ends up not rolling like 1st quality shell should. 

 

 

Inconsistent stitching (what I expect with Meermin...)

 

 

Glue/grime all over the tongue (again, something I would I expect with Meermin...)

 

 

Wrinkles and quality of shell here, that I'm mainly concerned about once I start wearing these (These are unworn)

 

 

Similar creasing with my Alden Shell 2nds

 

post #16810 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelp3 View Post
 

True, but I look at these Carmina Natural Shells and look a the consistency, and lack of any wrinkles.  

 

http://imgur.com/a/Iu2B1 

 

 

Also, I have a pair of whiskey shell Vass boots and there is nothing like these spots or wrinkles on that boots...

 

Both of those shoes you linked to have dark spots on the heel.  I agree that the vamps look fantastically consistent on them though. 

 

Bottom line is if you aren't happy, you should be able to return them.  I don't think that wrinkle on the shaft is a problem, as it would be covered by the pants 99% of the time anyway, and even when its not, its not noticeable -except to you.  But if its going to bother you to see it, them return them.  

post #16811 of 18854

Go ahead and return them...right on over to my crib...:)

 

Seriously, like @peppercorn78 said, and others like @stevent, this is what you would expect with the lighter shades of shell cordovan.

 

The wrinkling will happen like the first or second wearing anyway.

 

This is why so many makers shy away from the lighter shades...inconsistency that is inherent to the actual leather itself.

 

Carmina are Masters at working with Cordovan.  Some of the finest examples of shell cordovan shoemaking I have ever handled have come from them. 

post #16812 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie411 View Post
 

 

Both of those shoes you linked to have dark spots on the heel.  I agree that the vamps look fantastically consistent on them though. 

 

Bottom line is if you aren't happy, you should be able to return them.  I don't think that wrinkle on the shaft is a problem, as it would be covered by the pants 99% of the time anyway, and even when its not, its not noticeable -except to you.  But if its going to bother you to see it, them return them.  

Yeah, the spots are a less of a concern overall.

 

I agree that I should be given the option to return or see if they can make me another pair.  I'm still waiting to hear back from Betty, which is part of my frustration...

 

Yes, the wrinkle will be covered by my pants and it's the same case with my Alden's that have a similar wrinkle, but they were categorized as 2nds for that reason.

post #16813 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelp3 View Post
 

Yeah, the spots are a less of a concern overall.

 

I agree that I should be given the option to return or see if they can make me another pair.  I'm still waiting to hear back from Betty, which is part of my frustration...

 

Yes, the wrinkle will be covered by my pants and it's the same case with my Alden's that have a similar wrinkle, but they were categorized as 2nds for that reason.


I have had whiskey shell cordovan boots come from Alden looking like that and they were firsts...

post #16814 of 18854
@saurabh

I just pulled out my pair of unworn saddle shell boots that I received from Carmina recently and they also have the same spots in some areas. As others have said, these are just natural inconsistencies in the leather which are more visible due to the light shade of cordovan. They don't bother me in the slightest, and probably won't even be visible in a few months as the leather darkens with wear.

I think both your makeups look great. Wear them and enjoy them!
post #16815 of 18854
Just to back up a little on the issue of whether shoe trees are included in all pairs - is this the practice for US buyers only? I'm from Asia and the site uses euro as the currency denomination. I have to click a little box that says "shoe tree" and the price goes up by about €50. If I do not click this box, will my shoes ship with shoe trees?
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