Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[zippyh]

Maybe he found out they weren't deerskin.

 

[sinnedk]



GTFO!!

he was comparing the finish of the pair of carminas he returned vs AEs finish. i am sure if moo received a pair of carmina in perfect condition he wouldnt be able to compare them to AE.

 

[Mr. Moo]

I love the marsupials that +1'd. Like moths to a flame.

 

[diglett]

I love the marsupials that +1'd. Like moths to a flame.

It's quite simple: While one bad experience might turn you off from a brand for good, none (or at least most) of us have had to deal with anything even remotely as bad. So to us, Carmina is still something that provides great products at an arguably unbeatable price point.

Not to mention that it's in my opinion that AE has a lackluster finish in comparison with the few pairs of Carminas I've handled.

 

[Mr. Moo]

I am happy that you have had great experiences; however, I have posted my experience, and my opinion. NAMOR's post, and your agreement in telling me to get the **** out, really means nothing to me. I hope that my post will help shed a bit of light on what can happen when ordering shoes from across the globe. I certainly didn't come here to piss on your shoes.

I'll stick to Vass and St. Crispin.

 

[sinnedk]

folks dont be so stuck on brands, i like carmina, own carmina, but also had a bad experience in the order process

 

[Leaves]

I am of the opinion that Carmina are very good value for money.

But let’s be very clear, Carmina are not up to standards with Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling, and have never claimed to be so. On the contrary, they emphasize themselves that you should not compare them to these makers. As mentioned above, you pay half the price, if not less, for a pair of Carmina compared to EG or G&G. You can’t buy an Audi and expect it to perform like a Porsche. If you want to compare them do it with Crockett & Jones Benchgrade, Alden or other brands in the $500 segment.

Mr. Moo had a bad customer experience. That is unfortunate. There is a perfectly good explanation for this, although I’m not saying it makes it right; Carmina are not used to dealing with end consumers. There is also the language barrier. This is why some people will find the experience dealing directly with them discouraging. Carmina is still a very good maker, they have to improve on their end customer handling if they want to be successful with their direct sales, but there’s a bunch of earnest independent retailers offering Carmina, so you’ll be fine either way. Carmina shoes are great and maybe the best bang for the buck in the shoemaking industry (yes, I am biased, but it is my honest opinion) so if you don’t like dealing directly with Carmina, go to your local Carmina retailer or Skoaktiebolaget, The Armoury, Epaulet or some other store with a good selection and a mail order service.

 

[dddrees]

I am of the opinion that Carmina are very good value for money.
But let’s be very clear, Carmina are not up to standards with Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling, and have never claimed to be so. On the contrary, they emphasize themselves that you should not compare them to these makers. As mentioned above, you pay half the price, if not less, for a pair of Carmina compared to EG or G&G. You can’t buy an Audi and expect it to perform like a Porsche. If you want to compare them do it with Crockett & Jones Benchgrade, Alden or other brands in the $500 segment.
Mr. Moo had a bad customer experience. That is unfortunate. There is a perfectly good explanation for this, although I’m not saying it makes it right; Carmina are not used to dealing with end consumers. There is also the language barrier. This is why some people will find the experience dealing directly with them discouraging. Carmina is still a very good maker, they have to improve on their end customer handling if they want to be successful with their direct sales, but there’s a bunch of earnest independent retailers offering Carmina, so you’ll be fine either way. Carmina shoes are great and maybe the best bang for the buck in the shoemaking industry (yes, I am biased, but it is my honest opinion) so if you don’t like dealing directly with Carmina, go to your local Carmina retailer or Skoaktiebolaget, The Armoury, Epaulet or some other store with a good selection and a mail order service.

Great explanation, completely believable, and makes perfect sense.


Besides as unfortunate as one persons experience maybe, that doesn't mean that the brand nor everything it does isn't up to standard.

 

[Mr. Moo]

Look, *I* have never claimed that Carmina is comparable to high end brands. I don't know why this keep being brought up as if it's something I said, or is something that is germane to this discussion. The only time I mentioned other brands in my conversation with Betty is when she said (and I'm repeating this AGAIN, for the third time) that the reason for the problems with my shoes is because they are "artisan" and made by hand. That is a total load of **** that I'm sure has worked on other customers who are perhaps more akin to purchasing Cole Haan and other such non-"artisan" brands, and don't know any better. Frankly it was insulting and I should have told her to **** off and filed a PayPal complaint then and there, but I remained civilized and ended up losing over $100 because of it.

If Carmina is not used to dealing with the end customer, they need to stop selling directly to the end customer until they can sort out their issues. I think that is a piss poor excuse, actually. What, they can't take 20 seconds to look at every pair of shoes that leaves their store and make sure that shoes with completely open and obvious faults are not sent to the customer? IF that is the excuse for their lack of attention to detail of the finished product, they need new quality control procedures. Slashes in leather? Divots in cap-toes? Divots in other areas of the shoe? Plastic still clinging to the welt? Rub marks all over the side/sole as if they were worn? Alden sells their seconds - at significant discounts - and they are usually in better shape than some of the Carminas I've seen sold as firsts here and in person (and not just my pair, either). Even Allen Edmonds doesn't sell their first quality shoes in such condition! (and if they do, their customer service doesn't screw around with the customer with excuses, and then nickle and dime the returns process)

 

[Fiddler]

I once ordered a pair of cordovan shoes from Betty in size 8 and she had to pull it from one of her stores. In a couple of days she wrote saying that the shoes had not passed quality control and she could not sell them to me. She offered me the same pair in 8.5 and sent me a photograph of it. It wasn't a great pic and I made some remark about how the leather seemed inconsistently coloured. At this point, she dissuaded me from buying them saying she did not want me to be disappointed. I eventually bought them after she sent a better quality pic through and they were great. But she gave me the impression of someone with some integrity, not just interested in taking my money.

 

[Mr. Moo]

Lovely story, and the way it ought to be. When was this, approximately?

 

[Gdot]



Look, *I* have never claimed that Carmina is comparable to high end brands. I don't know why this keep being brought up as if it's something I said, or is something that is germane to this discussion. The only time I mentioned other brands in my conversation with Betty is when she said (and I'm repeating this AGAIN, for the third time) that the reason for the problems with my shoes is because they are "artisan" and made by hand. That is a total load of **** that I'm sure has worked on other customers who are perhaps more akin to purchasing Cole Haan and other such non-"artisan" brands, and don't know any better. Frankly it was insulting and I should have told her to **** off and filed a PayPal complaint then and there, but I remained civilized and ended up losing over $100 because of it.
If Carmina is not used to dealing with the end customer, they need to stop selling directly to the end customer until they can sort out their issues. I think that is a piss poor excuse, actually. What, they can't take 20 seconds to look at every pair of shoes that leaves their store and make sure that shoes with completely open and obvious faults are not sent to the customer? IF that is the excuse for their lack of attention to detail of the finished product, they need new quality control procedures. Slashes in leather? Divots in cap-toes? Divots in other areas of the shoe? Plastic still clinging to the welt? Rub marks all over the side/sole as if they were worn? Alden sells their seconds - at significant discounts - and they are usually in better shape than some of the Carminas I've seen sold as firsts here and in person (and not just my pair, either). Even Allen Edmonds doesn't sell their first quality shoes in such condition! (and if they do, their customer service doesn't screw around with the customer with excuses, and then nickle and dime the returns process)

Apparently you've not spent much time in the AE thread - their quality control challenges are vast and legendary.

btw - I'm no fan of Carmina's customer service - slow at best and Betty's command of English is just good enough to make one believe she knows exactly what she is saying, including nuance. But in fact her command of the English language is good, but not great.

 

[Gdot]

None the less - based on my three pairs so far - nobody beats their product/price proposition - particularly in shell.

 

[ethanm]

I ordered a pair from the web store and they were out. Betty emailed me right away and said they were going to make my pair and they would be ready in two weeks. They smelled so good and fresh when they got here.

 

[Fiddler]

Lovely story, and the way it ought to be. When was this, approximately?

Not too long ago...couple of months perhaps....these were the shoes in question. I am glad the size 8 had QC issues or else I wouldve bought the wrong size.