Charles Tyrwhitt Policy Change - No Value Added Tax Refunds!!!!

I was very happy with the customer service on my first CT order last year. Prices and service were beyond reproach.

On my recent order, I was also shocked to discover they stopped deducting VAT. While I stop short of seeing it as fraud, I don't appreciate being charged this mark-up compared to non-EU customers. With this new higher price, they are no longer as competitive price-wise and I will be ordering mostly from Moderntailor from now on. If I catch a fabric on their weekly sale, it will be cheaper than CT with the exchange rate, and I get a MTM shirt.

Its too bad, I liked most of their patterns.

I don't care if what CT is doing is fair or not, or whether they are being misleading or not. The fact is that they are charging non-EU customers more than they are charging EU customers. As a US customer, I refuse to buy from any supplier who discriminates against US consumers. So, my trade will go elsewhere. Go riddance to you, CT.

Some other UK stores are doing this as well. Asos.com began charging VAT for all purchases like a month ago.
I think you should be able to get a VAT refund in-store.

The reason that the posting of prices without VAT is prohibited by law is exactly as expressed so well in this e-mail chain. It is misleading to the consumer who believes that he is paying the VAT during his/her purchase, only to find out later that the VAT difference has been pocketed by the merchant. Yes, a buyer could read the fine print, but that is why we have consumer protection laws so that buyers can make informed decisions regarding the true purchase price of goods without having to hire a lawyer. Worse, CT's posting of prices is especially misleading since it contains VAT for some purchasers, but not for others.

Regarding the pricing of goods, while merchants do have some discretion regarding things like administrative and shipping costs, the treaties governing US/UK/EU international commerce typically do not allow for discriminatory pricing based solely on the origin of the consumer. The reasons for this are self evident in maintenance of fair and vigorous trade relationships. CT could, of course, refuse to ship outside the EU, but I doubt they will do that.

Putting aside the likely restrictions in the preceding paragraph, CT could advertise a non-EU price that included VAT above the EU price, but I doubt they are going to be willing to bring this to the light of day and that's likely why they have proceeded with this unpublicized change in the small print terms and conditions. That is the heart of the problem.

CT's lawyers must really have been asleep at the switch on this one. The law is absolutely clear on the prohibition on posting prices that do not include VAT on public websites. In the U.S. similar tax fraud (yes, fraud, in my opinion or at least a wanton and negligent disregard of UK tax requirements) would subject the merchant to treble damages, full restitution, and payment of legal fees. I do know some underemployed barristers in the UK who would salivate over this class action given CT's volumes, but I just want to give CT the time to do the right thing.

Fortunately, I checked the other Jermyn Street merchants sites and they have all been smart enough to retain their lawful policies regarding advertised prices.

For you unfortunate purchasers at the U.S. website, the forced $2 to 1 Pound exchange rate and VAT issue have cost you many, many extra dollars in relation to your EU counterparts. I actually began shopping on Jermyn Street in person and got my VAT refunds at the airport. When I got a U.S. CT catalogue in the mail, I was shocked at the 30%+ price difference. Thus, I began shopping at the UK site, just like I do for Lewin, H&H, etc. Oh well, caveat emptor!

Filing a complaint with HMRC is very easy and you can get the form on the web address in my initial post. All it takes for a wrong to exist is when good men do nothing.

As an aside, I wonder if the VAT refund will not be available for goods purchased in person at their stores in the UK and taken back through the airport to non-EU countries?

FYI Sunspell also charges VAT for orders outside of the EU. When I emailed them I got some BS response about having to recoup delivery charges or some crap. Can dig up the email if anybody is interested.

Does all this mean that we here in the UK can take Brooks Brothers, Abercrombie, Gap, Banana Republic, Apple etc. to court for charging UK customers up to double what they charge US customers? Different prices in different markets is hardly a new phenomenon.

Originally Posted by rebel222

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Couldn't they play the same principle argument with you shopping on their UK site for the sole purpose of getting the clothes cheaper? Some good cost more in other countries. They just do, and it's not a currency issue. More competition in certain markets is one reason.

I don't believe that you pay the full import duty amount all the time. Have you ever called the customs office and complained that they undercharged you? Also, I don't believe for one second that you file a use tax form on the items you purchase CT. So essentially, you are complaining about someone committing tax fraud, and I can say with 90% certainty that you commit tax fraud by not paying proper duties or failing to file use taxes properly. If you file all the proper taxes and notify the gov't when they forget to charge you duties, then I will recant this statement. However, I would like you to post this information publicly, so all of styleforum can call you a liar.

I understand your complaint, but your rant has a sense of entitlement in it that just turns me off from giving a **** about your issue.

Have a good day.

I know it is hard to believe, but I do file a use tax return in my state. I estimate my out of state purchases and file the return. I however, do not call customs and tell them that I received goods without paying customs.

However, this is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is that the CT UK site's prices include VAT. I am not subject to VAT, yet they are charging me for it and not remitting the taxes to the tax authority. If they did remit, I could file with HR Taxing and get a refund. I don't give a **** what you think, if you can't understand this argument, you aren't very intelligent. They are defrauding their non-EU customers. Have a good day!

If CT claims that they are charging you VAT and not remitting it, I can see the taxman caring. Otherwise, dunno...

I've tried to buy some cheap-o white shirts from CT a few times, but they are always 6-months back ordered. Silly place.

Originally Posted by Deep Classic

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The reason that the posting of prices without VAT is prohibited by law is exactly as expressed so well in this e-mail chain. It is misleading to the consumer who believes that he is paying the VAT during his/her purchase, only to find out later that the VAT difference has been pocketed by the merchant. Yes, a buyer could read the fine print, but that is why we have consumer protection laws so that buyers can make informed decisions regarding the true purchase price of goods without having to hire a lawyer. Worse, CT's posting of prices is especially misleading since it contains VAT for some purchasers, but not for others.

Regarding the pricing of goods, while merchants do have some discretion regarding things like administrative and shipping costs, the treaties governing US/UK/EU international commerce typically do not allow for discriminatory pricing based solely on the origin of the consumer. The reasons for this are self evident in maintenance of fair and vigorous trade relationships. CT could, of course, refuse to ship outside the EU, but I doubt they will do that.

Putting aside the likely restrictions in the preceding paragraph, CT could advertise a non-EU price that included VAT above the EU price, but I doubt they are going to be willing to bring this to the light of day and that's likely why they have proceeded with this unpublicized change in the small print terms and conditions. That is the heart of the problem.

CT's lawyers must really have been asleep at the switch on this one. The law is absolutely clear on the prohibition on posting prices that do not include VAT on public websites. In the U.S. similar tax fraud (yes, fraud, in my opinion or at least a wanton and negligent disregard of UK tax requirements) would subject the merchant to treble damages, full restitution, and payment of legal fees. I do know some underemployed barristers in the UK who would salivate over this class action given CT's volumes, but I just want to give CT the time to do the right thing.

Fortunately, I checked the other Jermyn Street merchants sites and they have all been smart enough to retain their lawful policies regarding advertised prices.

For you unfortunate purchasers at the U.S. website, the forced $2 to 1 Pound exchange rate and VAT issue have cost you many, many extra dollars in relation to your EU counterparts. I actually began shopping on Jermyn Street in person and got my VAT refunds at the airport. When I got a U.S. CT catalogue in the mail, I was shocked at the 30%+ price difference. Thus, I began shopping at the UK site, just like I do for Lewin, H&H, etc. Oh well, caveat emptor!

Filing a complaint with HMRC is very easy and you can get the form on the web address in my initial post. All it takes for a wrong to exist is when good men do nothing.

As an aside, I wonder if the VAT refund will not be available for goods purchased in person at their stores in the UK and taken back through the airport to non-EU countries?

Where exactly on the site do you file a complaint?

I went to the bottom of the page under the "Getting More help and Advice" section and used the link here:

"If your question is more complex you can email your query to HMRC.

Members of the public – email a VAT question"

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by PaulSLH

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Does all this mean that we here in the UK can take Brooks Brothers, Abercrombie, Gap, Banana Republic, Apple etc. to court for charging UK customers up to double what they charge US customers? Different prices in different markets is hardly a new phenomenon.
+1 Ralph Lauren, also and in particular. Welcome to our world, bitches!

Originally Posted by Loathing

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+1 Ralph Lauren, also and in particular. Welcome to our world, bitches!
OK, you might have me there, but please answer these questions: 1) If you live in the UK, can you not order off of the Brooks Brothers US site and pay the US prices? Certainly shipping would be more, but no one has argued that CT shipping isn't fair or reasonable. 2) If you can, do they charge you sales taxes as if you were living in the US? 3) If you can purchase on the US site and they do not charge you sales taxes, isn't this the exact same thing that we are stating should be available to us on the CT UK site. I am interested in your answers, as I really don't know the answers myself. However, having said all that, it does not appear that CT is advertising their products in accordance with the EU VAT tax requirements. When I went to check out, VAT wasn't deducted, yet they indicate on their site that prices include VAT. I don't have any problem if they want to have a different pricing strategy on their UK site for EU customers and non-EU customers. At least that would be transparent. I still wouldn't buy from them because I am not willing to pay them 30% more for the exact same product than an EU customer would pay. Now, if we were simply talking about brick and mortar stores, I could understand different prices for the same item in different countries as the costs of doing business can vary dramatically by location. However, when the sales are through electronic means and the only difference is placing an out-of-EU address on a package versus an in-EU address (assuming the customer adequately pays the additional shipping costs), I don's see why anyone should be willing to pay 30% more.

I'd like to thank the OP for bringing this to my attention. I was going to order some CT shirts from the US site. However, after looking at the UK site, those of us Down Under can save around $6 a shirt (based on £19.95 inc VAT/$39 deal) due to the current exchange rate between AUD/GBP offering a better deal than AUD/USD. (YMMV, just keep an eye on your favourite currency converter)

Originally Posted by PaulSLH

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Does all this mean that we here in the UK can take Brooks Brothers, Abercrombie, Gap, Banana Republic, Apple etc. to court for charging UK customers up to double what they charge US customers? Different prices in different markets is hardly a new phenomenon.
THIS. A couple of months back, there was a media campaign started by Australia's biggest retailers lobbying for GST (our version of VAT) to be charged on all internet purchases of < AUD$1,000. The thing is that if Australian retail prices weren't up to TRIPLE the price of the same items purchased directly from OS, there wouldn't be as much online shopping happening in the first place. As the AUD keeps getting stronger, buying from OS is just going to get cheaper. Hell, even if the AUD tanks and the margin between buying locally and buying online reduces, online offers a range that local retailers could only dream of. I don't really give a **** what CT do with the VAT (in relation to pricing), as long as the pricing remains low and the quality remains high, I'm happy.

Not going to place any further orders with CT. Also filed a complaint with HM Revenue & Customs. It's fine if they want to jack their price up - but they need to specify it does not include VAT, or else they're essentially collecting VAT and not remitting it, which is a major no-no.

Really, the only way it'll be investigated is if there's several complaints - so take two minutes of your time and let them know. Instructions were even provided in the thread...

^^ I agree. Literally only takes 2 minutes. Link is the starting post of the thread.