~$3,000 for a decent watch, need opinions please. - Page 5

HUGE difference between "used" and "vintage." Used is a current or non-collectable item that you wanted to save money on by buying someone else's old stuff. Vintage is an entirely different animal. I for one would love an original RAF JLC or IWC pilot watch from WWII. And while vintage cars are not my personal interest, I completely understand the appeal. But I'd rather have a brand new 5 Series than an '09 7 Series and I'd rather a brand new Ralph Lauren suit than someone's old Kiton.

Since this is the only area I have a reasonable amount of expertise I will do my best to provide an informative post:

Let me begin by making a few assumptions: I assume $3000 is not the limit but kind of the "range" you had in mind and that you also want a more timeless piece (i.e. nothing too far out there).

For this price point the obvious choices people will tell you are Omega, some IWC's, and perhaps Zenith. Depending on what you are looking for, my advice varies greatly. Your Oris watch is a decent choice for a first watch, although I wish you had given more information on the model or type so I could pick a second watch that would not be too similar.

To address your initial question: In my personal opinion, when I bought my first Rolex from a Brick and Mortar store, it was a very enjoyable experience. People were saying congratulations and one couldn't help but feel proud. The watch was sized there and I got to take everything home that day. Now, all that said, I have a relationship with this dealer now and have several friends that work there, if I did not, I would not hesitate to look online. From a "bang for your buck" perspective, online is the way to go. You can find the exact same watch that you will find at an AD (authorized dealer) and will likely save an additional 10-15% (depending on chosen brand). My final advice would be: if you are going to try and establish a relationship with an AD, then go ahead and buy from one. If you just want to get a great watch at a good price, buy online.

As for the watch suggestion itself: For $3k, I might honestly recommend buying online and/or pre-owned (i.e. used). My reasoning for this is that you can get a much higher quality watch if you look at the used market. For a brand new watch, $3k will probably get you a lower-tier omega, a lower-tier IWC (as has been stated), or maybe a nice Baume & Mercier. However, also for around $3k, you could score a used Rolex Explorer I, which in my opinion, is a very handsome and under-rated watch. The reason I suggest it, is that it is more versatile. A watch in stainless steel and with 100 M water resistance can be worn with a suit or with jeans and a t-shirt...and then swimming if you so desire. Another choice in the same vein as IWC is JLC, some of which can be found used at around that price point and is a spectacular brand (in my opinion). My personal favorite is the original JLC Master control. Basically my suggestion is to look around and compare new options to pre-owned, because once you buy it and wear it once, it is effectively "pre-owned" and no one will know the difference. That said, if you just want a nice dress watch, an IWC Portofino Automatic on a crocodile strap is not a bad choice. Why do I not suggest Omega? In my opinion, the original Speedmaster (moon watch) is the only model I truly feel is worth owning from them. There have been some reports of quality control issues with some of their movements, and they seem to make "limited edition" watches every 5 seconds. If someone has an Omega, I respect their choice, but I will not recommend them.

A little bit about movements: A great many watches use sourced movements from ETA. Common examples are the ETA 2824, ETA 2892-A2, and Valjoux 7750. The reason some people hassle IWC is that all of its watches do not use in house movements. For example, the Portofino (I believe) uses a modified ETA 2824. Breitling and Omega do similar things, although Breitling has recently come out with their B01/B1 and Omega has its co-axial technology. Granted each brand puts its own spin on these base movements, but at their core, they are ETA movements found in any Swatch. Depending on how much you care about movements vs. aesthetics, this may or may not matter to you. I should say that these are still tried and tested movements and have been around for a long time and you watch is likely at no greater risk of malfunction due to using an ETA variant. Servicing the watch may also be cheaper as most watch makers are familiar with ETA movements. From a prestige and collectors standpoint however, watches with in-house movements prefer to be favored. While I myself stand among them (hence my suggestions for some rolex models and JLC), I will not discount the credibility that ETA-based watches have earned. In the end, it is up to you, I simply felt you should be informed.

One word of warning, if you buy online, be careful. Request pictures and certificates of authenticity. Buy the seller first, the watch second. Also if it is an older piece, check when it was last serviced. Service costs can be around ~$500 for respected brands. If it has not been serviced recently, use this as a bargaining chip to bring the asking price down.

My summary:
Look at JLC and some of the lesser known Rolex models
Certain Zenith and IWC models can be fine choices, maybe even a Glashutte Original
Buy the seller first, the watch second
Do not be afraid to buy online or used

I hope this was useful.

Omega is owned by the Swatch Group. The Swatch Group owns ETA and Lemania Ebauche. The older Omegas (post-70's) use ETA movements along with 95% of all the Swiss watch brands. Does that mean Swatch owns everybody? Also if ETA and Omega are owned by the same company, that means it's in-house regardless. Rolex NEVER started off as an in-house movement manufacturer. They just discreetly bought out all of their suppliers in the past 10 years and recently started calling themselves an in-house manufacturer.

The new 39mm explorer is more, I think between $5,700 and $5,800. The boutiques are actually just ADs that Rolex has authorized to set up a Rolex-only store. They WILL NOT discount, while other ADs will. If this is how you feel, you will end up walking around the mall with a $1,000 shopping bag.

My advice to you is that you find a place to purchase the watch at a decent discount, then drive to the mall and pay the first person to come out of the Rolex boutique $100 for their shopping bag. You can then walk around the mall with it for the rest of the day. Everybody wins.

I suppose it would depend on your definition of "in-house", but in the conventional definition, it means that the movement in the watch is made by the same manufacturer (i.e. the individual group) that made the watch. For example, an Omega with a movement made completely by Omega, not the Swatch umbrella group. That is like saying that a Vacheron Constantin Overseas (which uses a modified JLC 899 movement) has an in-house movement, because both are owned by the Richemont S.A. Most I think would disagree that this is the case. I might even go so far as to say that an ETA movement is the antithesis of what one thinks of when they think "in-house", due to the large amount of brands that use them. A watch brand is its own separate entity, regardless whether it is a subsidiary or not. Does it make business sense to use watch movements from other brands in the same group for other brands? Absolutely, and few would certainly argue that a modified JLC 899 movement is anything to scoff at, but it does lack true "in-house" status. Like I said, a great deal of watches use ETA movements (and there is a reason for that) and few will tout their impact and longevity in the watch industry.

In regards to the Rolex comment: Very few watch companies started out initially as an in-house manufacturer. Even brands like Patek and Audemars initially sourced (and some still do) movements from the likes of JLC and Piaget. Now these (especially Patek) are touted as some of the top watch manufacturers in the world. Actually if we were to go further back in history, I might agree that Omega was on par with, if not superior to Rolex. Today though, I would still disagree. It's marketing scheme and quality control have degraded from the icon it once was. There are like 50 limited editions of the same watch and movement complaints are seemingly more abundant. However the Speedmaster 3570.50 (or even better 145.012) and a 1960's-1970's Seamaster are laudable pieces. I think Rolex has stayed truer to its roots and kept a very classic styling. Its popularity had to come from somewhere. Now do not get me wrong. I shudder at the sight of the cliched 16610 Sub that seemingly occupies 90% of Rolex wearer's wrists, but a the end of the day, they make an excellent timepiece.

Also, Rolex has been an in-house manufacturer for some time. The last piece to make the change was the Daytona, which previously used a Zenith chronograph movement. You are accurate in your estimate of the fact that is was ~10 years ago, but discretely bought out all their suppliers? You make it sound so shady haha.

All this said, if we really wanted to buy the most purely in-house movement possible...we should be buying nothing but Seikos.

The entire Swiss watch industry is shady. Almost as bad as the fashion industry. The minimum requirements for the "Swiss Made" imprint on the dial of Swiss watches ONLY requires that the parts used be of minimum 51% manufactured in Switzerland. Many brands manufacture the other 49% in China and Southeast Asia. If you go to the counterfeit markets in Asia, some of the knockoff watches may actually be made from authentic parts from reject watches. You're right in that Seiko is the ONLY true in-house manufacturer. They make their own oils for their watches and even Tag Heuer bought the rights of a particular caliber from them. The sad thing about Seiko is that even with their Grand Seiko line and the $28,000 Spring Drive Spacewalk, the average consumer only sees them as a cheap Asian watch company.

FTFY.

Great info gentlemen!!

anyone knows the price of Chopard Classic Racing , with tyre looking strap entry level price?

if possible post the model, picture and price together... thanks