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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoo Porn Theard - Page 527

post #7891 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

mimo and newcomer - very excellent posts.

i think in a sense you are both right, and it really is matter what one is looking for in a shoes purchase.

regarding looks, i have tried a few times to go back and buy shoes closer to the 250-350 range, and i just cant get myself to do it. i find the lasts blobby or far too pointy or just generally unattractive. i really honestly do not understand why your average shoe maker in the 200 - 350 range has such a hard time making lasts that dont look like garbage, just my opinion tho. i dont like all the lasts of JL, GG, EG.... but they all make many last that i love. (sidebar - newcomer, i have the lowndes as well, and the edgware which is on the same last, i think its a great last and its just as pretty as many of the last that shoes in the 1200+ range have to offer)

as far as quality, in my experience the shoes that i have had in the 200 - 350 range did not hold up nearly as well as the shoes i have in the 500+ range. i have had a ton of ferragamos (not the high end ones, the 300 - 400 ones you see in nordstrom), and they are about a 5 year shoe before the leather just looks like crap ime. i have had mezlan, johnston murphy and some others i forget, but none of them really lasted more than 3 - 5 years. they just looked worn down and crappy.

the shoes i have in the 500+ range are all less than 2 years old, but as far as i can tell, they are on the path to hold up far better. the leather looks nicer and less beat up at this stage than the 200 - 350 did at this stage, they feel great and look great. they take a polish better and when i polish them they seem to develop character, not look like i am salvaging a shoe that is one foot out the door (shameless pun).

that being said, for most people, who are not nearly this particular about shoes, and would laugh you out of the room if you said your shoes cost over a grand, and only wear nice shoes from time to time, there is almost no value added for them to go anywhere beyond AE. they are not getting any more bang for their buck in how they will enjoy their purchase.

if you are particular, at least for me, once you turn that corner, there really is no turning back. you just wont be happy if you do.

regarding 500 v 1200 shoes, i really do have a hard time saying that the GGs i have are THAT much better than the CJs/trickers/carminas i have as well. maybe the finishing is better, maybe there is something about the leather that is better, maybe they will last longer, only time will tell. but that is a hard call.

as for GG v all the other shoe makers in that price point and beyond, its just a matter of personal preference. JL, EG, Vass, corthay, cleverly, st crispin, .... they all have their fan base. there is no great reason imo to love one over the other, its just about what appeals to your eyes and tastes.

 

+1 for this post, stitchy.  And that line above I put in bold/italics?  Totally applies to me.

post #7892 of 11788

Black tie dinner tonight, so ensemble includes Sinatras from G&G and my Patek 3970 in platinum on a black strap.

 

Very rare these days for me to actually wear black shoes except for evening events.

 

 

post #7893 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

+1 for this post, stitchy.  And that line above I put in bold/italics?  Totally applies to me.

Also applies to me. Once I bought my first pair of JL Prestige there was no turning back to cheaper shoes.
post #7894 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by emc894 View Post

Im selling size 9.5uk black oxfords on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251263757865&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

sorry for shameless self promotion but the price is a good one.

Not really
post #7895 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

All things being equal Mimo has it right, I think. There is no objective or "tangible" aspect recommending one GY welted RTW over the other. It could be argued the higher priced brands are often sewn with smaller stitches and the stitching may (repeat may) be straighter and more consistent. And indeed the finish of the shoes may be more attractive. Sometimes the leather itself may be marginally better.

And then there's the bogus issue of "more stylish lasts". Today's "ultimate," primo, ecstasy inducing last will be tomorrow's sneeringly gauche.

All of these are "in the eye of the beholder" and while some may indeed be objectively true, have little to do with quality or value. Certainly not enough to warrant price differentials of $500+

When it comes to RTW, beyond a certain point, what the customer...even the savvy customer...is paying for is Brand Name Cachet. I just wish people could be honest with themselves about that.

Then would you also say the same about hand-welted shoes? Should people buy Vass and Saint Crispin's when Meermin Linea Maestro is so much cheaper? Or, if they want bespoke, should they drop $4,500+ on John Lobb St James when all of the other London West End bespoke shoemakers are cheaper? (And the Lobbs won't even come with shoe trees.)
post #7896 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKDKid View Post

Then would you also say the same about hand-welted shoes? Should people buy Vass and Saint Crispin's when Meermin Linea Maestro is so much cheaper? Or, if they want bespoke, should they drop $4,500+ on John Lobb St James when all of the other London West End bespoke shoemakers are cheaper? (And the Lobbs won't even come with shoe trees.)

It's the same issues at every price level, every method and every maker. And I suspect it's the same people advocating one or the other as well. Because the bottom line is that there is a hierarchy of quality and people who focus on the box or the Name on the box...or the price...are focused on the wrong thing and will never understand quality. I've said this many times in many places, there are bespoke makers who can give you a custom fit and hand welted quality for less than some RTW makers who are selling more blue sky than terra firma. Of course, you won't have any bragging rights if you buy from such makers. and no box or bag to show.

You have to know what quality is...as opposed to glamour...and you have to look for it without reference to Esquire magazine.

And as much as I admire Lobbs St. James they're making more per hour and a better markup on raw materials than any number of equal or better bespoke makers around the world and not offering anything of significance different. You figure it out.
post #7897 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKDKid View Post


Then would you also say the same about hand-welted shoes? Should people buy Vass and Saint Crispin's when Meermin Linea Maestro is so much cheaper? Or, if they want bespoke, should they drop $4,500+ on John Lobb St James when all of the other London West End bespoke shoemakers are cheaper? (And the Lobbs won't even come with shoe trees.)

 

Accessibility/distribution aside, customers do get something extra in tangible qualities going from Meermin LM to Vass or SC.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


It's the same issues at every price level, every method and every maker. And I suspect it's the same people advocating one or the other as well. Because the bottom line is that there is a hierarchy of quality and people who focus on the box or the Name on the box...or the price...are focused on the wrong thing and will never understand quality. I've said this many times in many places, there are bespoke makers who can give you a custom fit and hand welted quality for less than some RTW makers who are selling more blue sky than terra firma. Of course, you won't have any bragging rights if you buy from such makers. and no box or bag to show.

You have to know what quality is...as opposed to glamour...and you have to look for it without reference to Esquire magazine.

And as much as I admire Lobbs St. James they're making more per hour and a better markup on raw materials than any number of equal or better bespoke makers around the world and not offering anything of significance different. You figure it out.

 

I beg to differ.  Not all bespoke shoemakers are equal and all bespoke makers have to support their pricing/mark up/margin by proving themselves by legacy, association, and experiences.

 

And sometimes there's also this hierarchy of masters and apprentices.  i.e., some new makers apprenticed under Lobb/Cleverley/Ugolini, or some random West End bloke was an outworker of X, or at the worst case someone went to a shoemaking skill hosted by some makers.  You can bet the former will have much more experience and expertise than the latter.  If Carreducker aren't experienced in making blind welted shoes, how could their students be any good?

post #7898 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the sheep View Post

Would have been great but i just ordered the Arran on MH71 in brown highland grain.

lurker[1].gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

Nicely put Stitches
One of my colleague once told me when you start spending $500 + on shoes it's purely down to one aesthetic aspiration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by no frills View Post

+1 for this post, stitchy.
And that line above I put in bold/italics?  Totally applies to me.

thanks, guys!
post #7899 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


I beg to differ.  Not all bespoke shoemakers are equal and all bespoke makers have to support their pricing/mark up/margin by proving themselves by legacy, association, and experiences.

And sometimes there's also this hierarchy of masters and apprentices.  i.e., some new makers apprenticed under Lobb/Cleverley/Ugolini, or some random West End bloke was an outworker of X, or at the worst case someone went to a shoemaking skill hosted by some makers.  You can bet the former will have much more experience and expertise than the latter.  If Carreducker aren't experienced in making blind welted shoes, how could their students be any good?

Not strictly true. Bespoke makers do not compete against each other. There's really not enough of them. They compete against themselves and entropy and perhaps to prove themselves to the ghosts of makers past. The "elder shoe gods."

There is a concept that has long since fallen into disrepute in this society and that is the concept of "enough" Many shoemakers are happy to be making a living doing what they love to do. Manufacturers, on the other hand, compete fiercely. In fact they cannot stop competing...ever...because they can never have enough--customers, profit, cachet.

You are correct that not all bespoke makers are equal, but that is true of any field of endeavor. The mitigating factor is that every bespoke maker has to personally answer to the customer and for his mistakes. Working with your hands, getting them dirty and having to clean up at night, is humbling in a way that sitting at a desk is not. And most bespoke makers are genuinely trying hard to understand and improve...arguably to a degree that manufacturers cannot afford.

As for the hierarchy of masters and apprentices...it's there, no question. But when a shoemaker decides to teach or take an apprentice...and if he feels any gratitude towards his own teachers and/or responsibility towards the Trade itself and most importantly towards the student...he will do everything in his power to give the student a head start beyond which he himself had. And the tools and understanding to eventually be better than the teacher. In some cases, the student comes out of training already better than the teacher.

Beyond that, the concept of "master" doesn't have much currency anymore. No more, certainly than "Finest shoes in Elbonia." It's just words. And everyone wants to be a master or an Artist and few have any compunction about taking that title for themselves.

So, in the end you're back on your own--if you can't find the wherewithal to learn about quality and all that it entails, you're invariably gonna be at the mercy of marketing hype. And it is marketing hype alone that allows shoes that are not significantly different from others in the same category to charge four and five times more than anyone else.
post #7900 of 11788
Have you guys been following the Japanese shoe thread? It looks like they are giving the western counterparts a run for the money.
post #7901 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

Have you guys been following the Japanese shoe thread? It looks like they are giving the western counterparts a run for the money.

 

Yes indeed.  But not cheaply.  I'd say a lot of them look like another step up though, so maybe it's worth it.  I'm following that thread keenly.  If they were better at international marketing we'd have ten threads on Japanese makers and  very different shoe collections.

post #7902 of 11788
Due to an unexpected short trip to Europe I am late with my MTO's of the month for April...Sorry to those who have been asking and patiently waiting...Here goes!


Bespoke-England 2013 "Made to Order Shoes of the Month": April

The 2 MTO's this month which will have the usual MTO sur charge removed saving £135.00 Non EU and £160.00 for EU

April Shoe 1: Due to Popular demand...

Style: Arran
Material: Espresso Calf
Size: YOUR SIZE
Last Shape: MH71 Soft Square
Sole: Oak Bark Single Leather soles, Haf, Double Leather or Dainite Soles

Price is £670.00 Non EU / £804.00 for EU

Trees if required... G&G Lasted Shoe Trees...£110.00 Non EU or £135.00 EU...OPTIONAL

Shipping Cost: £40.00

Estimated Delivery: July / August

Please note that the Photo shows Arran on TG73 Last.....April MTO is MH71 Last

Reply
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post #7903 of 11788
April Shoe 2:

Style: Grosvenor
Material: Racing Green Calf
Size: YOUR SIZE
Last Shape: TG73 Classic Square
Sole: Oak Bark Single Leather soles, Haf, Double Leather or Dainite Soles

Medallion can be removed if required.

Price is £650.00 Non EU / £780.00 for EU

Trees if required... G&G Lasted Shoe Trees...£110.00 Non EU or £135.00 EU...OPTIONAL

Shipping Cost: £40.00

Estimated Delivery: July / August



AppleMark
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post #7904 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

Have you guys been following the Japanese shoe thread? It looks like they are giving the western counterparts a run for the money.


Possibly not a run for the money, most definitely a run for people aesthetic aspiration.  Quality thread of 2013.

post #7905 of 11788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post

April Shoe 2:

Style: Grosvenor
Material: Racing Green Calf
Size: YOUR SIZE
Last Shape: TG73 Classic Square
Sole: Oak Bark Single Leather soles, Haf, Double Leather or Dainite Soles

Medallion can be removed if required.

Price is £650.00 Non EU / £780.00 for EU

Trees if required... G&G Lasted Shoe Trees...£110.00 Non EU or £135.00 EU...OPTIONAL

Shipping Cost: £40.00

Estimated Delivery: July / August



AppleMark


Hello Nick,

 

What size is the model shown?

 

Thanks

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