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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, etc...) - Page 215

post #3211 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't do stingray for the very reason you mention (as well as others) but I have seen it done. And it was always done by machine and it was always a mess...if you looked close.
I would not think that doing it by hand would result in a significantly better appearance excepting the fact that a machine driven needle might break a pearl now and again. Regardless of how it is done, if the machine driven needle deflects because it cannot penetrate the pearl, rest assured that the hand-held needle would not be able to penetrate the pearl either and so would have to enter the stingrray in just about the same position.

Well I am trying it now (well not now but on week ends) and what I did was to put a regular dry stitch (no thread) just on the lining alone (to make evenly spaced holes). Then when I push the needle through the stingray (in between the beads) I can angle the needle in irder to intersect with the evenly spaced hole in the lining. The result so far is that the stictch is barely visible on the stingray side because it is hidden by beads (almost) and on the lining side looks relatively clean because the spacing was pre done. I shall see how it looks in the end but maybe the angled thread wil cause some bunching or stretching of the lining side.
post #3212 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

Well I consider a black stingray wholecut to be fairly formal and I can't imagine G&G or any bespoke maker using a sewing machine to close a stingray upper. With a sewing machine the needle would deflect off the nodules and the stitches in the lining would be awfully messy looking. By hand you can easily guide the needle in between the bumps (although uneven spacing the thread becomes invisible) but still line up and space the holes in the lining. Slow and tedious as hell though.
Anyone: If the high end makers are using a michine on stingray any idea how its done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't do stingray for the very reason you mention (as well as others) but I have seen it done. And it was always done by machine and it was always a mess...if you looked close.
I would not think that doing it by hand would result in a significantly better appearance excepting the fact that a machine driven needle might break a pearl now and again. Regardless of how it is done, if the machine driven needle deflects because it cannot penetrate the pearl, rest assured that the hand-held needle would not be able to penetrate the pearl either and so would have to enter the stingrray in just about the same position.

Very interesting to read. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to educate the rest of us in the art of shoe making biggrin.gif
post #3213 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by GradSchooler View Post

Tragically, no. G&G won't make stingrays in any size over 9. I'm an 11... Stupid feet.

Huh, have you had that confirmed by Dean? Or is it just a myth? I have had them made for a client that is a 10.5. See below. Deco Cooper (repost).

245
post #3214 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

Huh, have you had that confirmed by Dean? Or is it just a myth? I have had them made for a client that is a 10.5. See below. Deco Cooper (repost).

This was true up until very recently (but I'm not sure for how long it was true before that), but they've recently found another supplier with large hides.
post #3215 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

Well I am trying it now (well not now but on week ends) and what I did was to put a regular dry stitch (no thread) just on the lining alone (to make evenly spaced holes). Then when I push the needle through the stingray (in between the beads) I can angle the needle in irder to intersect with the evenly spaced hole in the lining. The result so far is that the stictch is barely visible on the stingray side because it is hidden by beads (almost) and on the lining side looks relatively clean because the spacing was pre done. I shall see how it looks in the end but maybe the angled thread wil cause some bunching or stretching of the lining side.

I'm not saying that it can't be done or even that doing it by hand is a bad approach...but that said, I will be very interested in what you come up with.

I see several problems that aren't apparent in the telling: Ordinarily linings are mounted with some excess left above the topline. This allows the excess to be trimmed off neatly and closely to the bead or the folded edge of the topline. It also mitigates any problems that might develop when the topline is being stitched due to the lining not being properly lined up with the topline--it is difficult, if not unreasonably difficult, to machine stitch close to a blind edge.

Of course you might be thinking that since you're doing this by hand, all that is moot.

But if you cut the lining such that it seems to be an exact fit along the topline and then try to mount it you may find that problems arise simply because a lining and an upper are not exactly the same size...and you've got an "orange peel effect." Compounding that is the issue of pre/dry-stitching the top edge of the lining. How do you insure that the holes in the lining are spaced evenly and close enough to, or far enough from, the topline?

And if you leave some excess...a "trim allowance"...then how, and where, do you dry stitch the lining such that you can align the holes relative to the topline of the quarters?

Either way, it's not going to be easy and I suspect that if you compare the results--the stitching on the lining--with a calf shoe that has been machine stitched and trimmed...after the fact, so to speak...that you will be a bit disappointed.

Regardless, I hope you will take photos of both the process and the results.

Good luck.
Edited by DWFII - 4/19/12 at 8:04am
post #3216 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I'm not saying that it can't be done or even that doing it by hand is a bad approach...but that said, I will be very interested in what you come up with.
I see several problems that aren't apparent in the telling: Ordinarily linings are mounted with some excess left above the topline. This allows the excess to be trimmed off neatly and closely to the bead or the folded edge of the topline. It also mitigates any problems that might develop when the topline is being stitched due to the lining not being properly lined up with the topline--it is difficult, if not unreasonably difficult, to machine stitch close to a blind edge.
So that's what it's for! You can tell I am a newb

Of course you might be thinking that since you're doing this by hand, all that is moot.
But if you cut the lining such that it seems to be an exact fit along the topline and then try to mount it you may find that problems arise simply because a lining and an upper are not exactly the same size...and you've got an "orange peel effect.
What I did was calculate the circumference of the lining (2*pie*r) and estimated that r would differ by 2 mm. I have no idea if this will work though.

" Compounding that is the issue of pre/dry-stitching the top edge of the lining. How do you insure that the holes in the lining are spaced evenly and close enough to, or far enough from, the topline?
And if you leave some excess...a "trim allowance"...then how, and where, do you dry stitch the lining such that you can align the holes relative to the topline of the quarters?
Either way, it's not going to be easy and I suspect that if you compare the results--the stitching on the lining--with a calf shoe that has been machine stitched and trimmed...after the fact, so to speak...that you will be a bit disappointed.
I am very afraid this will be the case. It would be nice to be able to examine a G&G pair up close to see how it looks. If they are machine closing they must be going through a hell of a lot of needles though, unless they are going very very slowly and shifting the skin around so that needle avoids the center of the nodules

Regardless, I hope you will take photos of both the process and the results.
Good luck.

Thanks, I am going to need it for sure.

p.s. If it looks like homemade sin I am not posting pictures, lol!
post #3217 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravate_Noire View Post

So what exactly has to be handstitchted there to be truly handmade?
(this is not a serious questions, if you show me a single pair of formal shoes (a left or right one would be sufficient actually) of any maker in the world that comes with handsewn uppers I will buy you a drink).

Well I consider a black stingray wholecut to be fairly formal and I can't imagine G&G or any bespoke maker using a sewing machine to close a stingray upper. With a sewing machine the needle would deflect off the nodules and the stitches in the lining would be awfully messy looking. By hand you can easily guide the needle in between the bumps (although uneven spacing the thread becomes invisible) but still line up and space the holes in the lining. Slow and tedious as hell though.

Anyone: If the high end makers are using a michine on stingray any idea how its done?


That's good to hear, a standalone special case based upon imagination icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #3218 of 21786
Speaking of wholecuts, I have a couple of quick questions. I am currently intrigued by the Sinatra, being wholecuts, are there any issues with regards to excess stretching or greasing after some wear? Any suggestions on what I should wear them with? I've ruled out my business suits at the office so far. Thanks.
post #3219 of 21786
Creasing*, stupid auto spell check on my iPhone.
post #3220 of 21786
I think I liked 'greasing' better! biggrin.gif

Wholecuts can turn a little bit blobby as they age. But with good leather it can take quite a while. And if you think about it, the area that creases is no different structurally from a captoe. So the creasing isn't really any different. It's just that it somehow seems less appropriate on a well worn wholecut than on a captoe.

I have a pair of Grants (Sinatra with medallion) that look great after maybe 20 wearings. I'm sure they will go quite a number of years before they look too frumpy to wear.

As for wearing with suits - I do. Although I always feel that they are not quite right in some way.
post #3221 of 21786
I typically grease my GGs as well.
post #3222 of 21786
Less talk and more pics!

224
Hughes

228
Deco Cooper

317
Dorchester

221
Westbury
post #3223 of 21786
221

My newest MTO, this time a native Swedish order from Leaves/ Allde! Thanks for the help!

Westbury on the TG73 in Racing Green
post #3224 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes500 View Post

221 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
My newest MTO, this time a native Swedish order from Leaves/ Allde! Thanks for the help!
Westbury on the TG73 in Racing Green

you like the frankenstich? see me surprised...
post #3225 of 21786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

317
Dorchester

volltreffer
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