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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, etc...) - Page 116

post #1726 of 21772
Cambridge on the MH71, F width. Fox Suede. Oak Bark soles with translucent sole finish and metal toe tips.
254

Rothschild on DG70, F width. Vintage Chestnut. Oak Bark soles with metal toe tips. Extra perfing.
236
post #1727 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post

splain please
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post



what do you mean?


The notch that defines the start of the heel and end of the waist is gone. What would G&G think of next.

Picture below borrowed from Leaves. Hope you don't mind.

heel.jpg
post #1728 of 21772
interesting. the heels on the shoe in the first post of this thread look the same as above. it would seem this change is not so new. could you post of pic of the notch you refer to.
post #1729 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post


The notch that defines the start of the heel and end of the waist is gone. What would G&G think of next.
Picture below borrowed from Leaves. Hope you don't mind.
heel.jpg


Here's a picture of G&G from a 2007 thread.  What was the notch @ heel/waist you mentioned?

 

66d9fdab_vbattach7220.jpg

post #1730 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post

The notch that defines the start of the heel and end of the waist is gone. What would G&G think of next.
Picture below borrowed from Leaves. Hope you don't mind.
heel.jpg

Actually, I like that look--that notch--although I know not everybody does.

I like it for several reasons:

First, it clearly defines the breast of the heel and if that edge is not perfectly straight it will be far more apparent with the notch than without. So it forces skill.

Second, it makes the heel look a little higher and the beveled waist a little more refined,

And third, you never see it on lower tier shoes...simply because it requires a little more attention to detail and effort to do.
post #1731 of 21772
Look at the point where the heel meets the waist on the front shoe. See how there is a small notch there. This type of bespoke detailing was on all G&G RTW and MTO up until a couple of months ago.

R0012707.jpg
post #1732 of 21772
Both of my pairs have this notch. They were RTW models that I presume were made some time ago.

If I am not mistaken this is more than just a cosmetic issue. I believe it has to do with a different method of construction in terms of how the sole and heal are attached to the shoe.

But I'm not 100% sure, I'm hoping someone can say more about this.
post #1733 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post

The notch that defines the start of the heel and end of the waist is gone. What would G&G think of next.
Picture below borrowed from Leaves. Hope you don't mind.
heel.jpg

Actually, I like that look--that notch--although I know not everybody does.

I like it for several reasons:

First, it clearly defines the breast of the heel and if that edge is not perfectly straight it will be far more apparent with the notch than without. So it forces skill.

Second, it makes the heel look a little higher and the beveled waist a little more refined,

And third, you never see it on lower tier shoes...simply because it requires a little more attention to detail and effort to do.

I like it also. I feel that G&G are going backwards with the omission of such details. Certainly saves them time, effort and cost though.
post #1734 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Both of my pairs have this notch. They were RTW models that I presume were made some time ago.
If I am not mistaken this is more than just a cosmetic issue. I believe it has to do with a different method of construction in terms of how the sole and heal are attached to the shoe.
But I'm not 100% sure, I'm hoping someone can say more about this.

That would be news to me. I do it on shoes and boots and have for many, many years. I think it evolved along with the beveled waist simply because many makers dislike the aesthetic awkwardness that occurs where the round edge of the waist merges with the flat side of the heelstack.
post #1735 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post

I like it also. I feel that G&G are going backwards with the omission of such details. Certainly saves them time, effort and cost though.

cheers.gif It worries me...I suspect it could all be part of that slippery slide into mediocrity that I rant about ever now and again with regard to the "factory mentality." Once it starts it's nigh unheard of and nearly impossible for a company to reverse direction.
Edited by DWFII - 11/8/11 at 8:11pm
post #1736 of 21772
Thanks DWF - I'll gladly take your word for it. I'm sure you know much more about it than I do.

I definitely like the look of the notch.
post #1737 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

That would be news to me. I do it on shoes and boots and have for many, many years. I think it evolved along with the beveled waist simply because many makers dislike the aesthetic awkwardness that occurs where the round edge of the waist merges with the flat side of the heelstack.

DW,

Can you please explain how a beveled waist is made? Does the stitching stop there?
Further, its use is purely aesthetic?

I have it on my new pair of vass, along with a HAF sole. I love the shoe but the more i think about the two details, the more i think that they don't really add to the shoe that much.
post #1738 of 21772
wow, lots of great info here guys. thanks. i hope somehow mine will have this notch, i like it.
post #1739 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post

DW,
Can you please explain how a beveled waist is made? Does the stitching stop there?
Further, its use is purely aesthetic?
I have it on my new pair of vass, along with a HAF sole. I love the shoe but the more i think about the two details, the more i think that they don't really add to the shoe that much.

Generally speaking...and no guarantees with factory made shoes...the edge of the outsole is trimmed square. After trimming is done, a "collice" or edge iron is used to burnish the outsole and add very nuanced details such as a slight concavity, a bevel (top and bottom), and a "wire" at the top and bottom edge of the outsole. Sometimes a "jigger step" will also be impressed into the edge (the welt really).

And sometimes...depending on the formality of the shoe and the maker's preferences...the welt and outsole in the waist will be thinned and then trimmed and burnished to have a round edge. A wire or jigger may also be found at the top edge of the outsole in the waist.

The welt stitching...securing the outsole to the welt...goes right back past the breast of the heel, ending a little rearward of the notch so that the end of the welt and the stitching are protected by the heel stack. . Often it is done at 10 or more stitches to the inch in the forepart and 5 or 6 spi in the waist.

A good deal of this is idiosyncratic...meaning it differs by maker.

Yes, it is largely cosmetic, if that's what you mean. That said, so is a folded edge along the topline, or even a bead. So is a toe cap. So is small, tight neat stitching. So is broguing and gimping. So is antique finishing. Wheeling around the heel seat. "Pricking up" of the welt. None of that has any real functional purpose (although once upon a time there might have been, in some instances).

But just as importantly, it is also an indicator of how skilled and how passionate/committed about shoemaking the maker is.
post #1740 of 21772
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Generally speaking...and no guarantees with factory made shoes...the edge of the outsole is trimmed square. After trimming is done, a "collice" or edge iron is used to burnish the outsole and add very nuanced details such as a slight concavity, a bevel (top and bottom), and a "wire" at the top and bottom edge of the outsole. Sometimes a "jigger step" will also be impressed into the edge (the welt really).
And sometimes...depending on the formality of the shoe and the maker's preferences...the welt and outsole in the waist will be thinned and then trimmed and burnished to have a round edge. A wire or jigger may also be found at the top edge of the outsole in the waist.
The welt stitching...securing the outsole to the welt...goes right back past the breast of the heel, ending a little rearward of the notch so that the end of the welt and the stitching are protected by the heel stack. . Often it is done at 10 or more stitches to the inch in the forepart and 5 or 6 spi in the waist.
A good deal of this is idiosyncratic...meaning it differs by maker.
Yes, it is largely cosmetic, if that's what you mean. That said, so is a folded edge along the topline, or even a bead. So is a toe cap. So is small, tight neat stitching. So is broguing and gimping. So is antique finishing. Wheeling around the heel seat. "Pricking up" of the welt. None of that has any real functional purpose (although once upon a time there might have been, in some instances).
But just as importantly, it is also an indicator of how skilled and how passionate/committed about shoemaking the maker is.

Lovely, thankyou.

Yes i agree about signifiers of quality and tradition.

The HAF (i have no idea where that term originated - but by that i mean double tapering to single) sole is probably something i won't order again, but i can see myself ordering beveled waists on oxfords.

In other news, these are my first handwelted shoes. Although I still enjoy my machine-made shoes, I doubt that i'll ever buy another pair again.
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