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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, etc...) - Page 1078

post #16156 of 21641
Originally Posted by armsignet View Post

- Perhaps this is obvious, but I will also note that click-and-mortar merchants like Bespoke England and Skoaktiebolaget offer extremely helpful sizing advice.  If you tell them how other makers' lasts and sizes fit you, they will recommend a size for G&G.  While an online order is also risky, I have had 100% success with the advise from both of these merchants for sizing in G&G, Carmina, and St. Crispin's. 

So, I guess my advice is, when you are ready to make another shoe purchase, try these venues too.  If you get a shoe that does not fit, you can recoup much of your money reselling a mint shoe here, and you should then know what your size is.  The loss is cheaper than a trip to London for most. 
Very well said & I agree 100% & I would also recommend this.
post #16157 of 21641


Gaziano Sting Ray MTO

post #16158 of 21641
Those are very nice man
post #16159 of 21641
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

My advice still stands: don't ever go for bespoke if you cannot imagine how something in a different design or a different colour would look on you.
G&G is probably the only place left where you can get a certain design made-up on the last of your choice. EG used to do that, but have stopped doing so in recent years. Now a certain design (even made-to-order) is only available on one or two lasts (but of course in all the different sizes and width the last is available), C&J only do each design on one last and (usually) in only one width.
But you do apply different standard to G&G and C&J: in G&G you expect to find style X, in last Y and colour Z. In C&J you were looking just for shoes (without too many preconceived ideas; so, you found two pairs which you liked and which fitted you well.

Don't you think if had looked with a similar open mind in G&G for something you liked, you might have found something?

Wasn't planning on going bespoke. As I said I was advised St James 2 was RTW on MH71. I did check before visiting - was considering MTO ie colour change after trying on RTW version. Correct me if I'm wrong RTW does mean 'ready to wear'. MTO means 'made to order' and bespoke means 'bespoke' does it not? If I'd have wanted bespoke I would have gone to Cleverley and spoken to the maker not the shop assistant, would have gone for exactly the same type of shoe, would have had a last made from my feet and would have had a hand welted shoe rather than a Goodyear welted sole. My left shoe would have been slightly larger than the right one and all the toe caps etc etc would have matched exactly inspite of my minor foot size differences (that is proper bespoke). I would have been confident that they would have fitted without trying on a pair in advance.

There are all sorts of reasons why you should try on a style in a last sizing ie where the cap edge comes in relation to the flex of your toe, some may dig in on the joint etc etc etc - those are not problems when going bespoke. MTO are generally minor changes around an established style ie colour, materials etc so as long as you've tried them on in the RTW version they are not a problem either.

Yes I do apply different standards to G&G than to say C&J. C&J are RTW and you are limited to that but they do specials also. You must remeber I was only comparing like with like - C&J RTW with G&G RTW. G&G run less lasts and less styles in RTW than C&J not the other way round.

I have obviously just been misinformed that ST James on MH71 is part of their RTW collection - that is all I have stated and I would expect them to have RTW shoes in stock otherwise RTW becomes MTO rather than RTW does it not?

Then your point about compromise. Shoe required Oxford cap toe. Brogue on cap line, curved u-throat and top line, heel cap and no punching on toe cap with softish squared toe. IMHO Gaziano and Girling St James 2 on MH71 is perfect. If I wanted a bespoke shoe I would ask the maker to copy the G&G product as it is perfection on my eyes.

That is what I set out to buy with my £1200 pounds which to me represents a price point where there should be no compromise and I was happy to pay the price for this extravagance, but not without trying it on. I wouldn't spend £600 on a shoe without trying style and last on!

Back to compromise, well if I can't have the perfect shoe unless I buy it blind, then compromise I did.

I compromised by buying 2 Oxford cap toes. Brogue on cap line, curved u-throat and top line, heel cap brogueing and no punching on toe cap with a softish squared toe on a last I do not think is as aesthetically pleasing as the MH71. However in G&G I am not overly fond of other lasts on this shoe, DG70 too round, TG73 can look a bit like a ducks bill, GG06 too round again etc.

Perhaps to you it's unfair to expect compromise with one shoe but not another, but to me the price point meant I was avoiding compromise. They were not after all making the shoe for me, it was already part of their current line.

This is not a G&G battering exercise as I clearly state that I feel St James on MH71 is perfection to me. I still consider this to be the case and well done G&G for their other extraordinarily beautiful shoes. It is just a real shame that for example skoaktiebolaget.se has a better range St James 2  than the main flagship store. Why not just produce a mail order catalogue if that is the case. Have a guess at the style and a guess at the fit and a guess at how it fits on your foot, hand over a large sum of money and if you're lucky it'll arrive in the post in a few months.

Finally with respect to an open mind would I have found something else I liked? Of course I would, for example Cliffe on a Deco in black suede is, from the pictures I've seen on the net, more an example of art than just a shoe. I am totally in love with that shoe. I was looking forward to seeing it and holding it and falling in love with it (yes I know I am rather sad) - but do you know what, they didn't have one of them either!

post #16160 of 21641
Originally Posted by MasonAndSmith View Post

Gaziano Sting Ray MTO

Christallmighty those are insane! I hope one day there'll be another GMTO for the whole cut in black stingray – would look stellar as an alternative to patent leather shoes for black tie bigstar[1].gif
post #16161 of 21641
Originally Posted by grc1 View Post

Not quite - based on my regular visits to the store, I'd say they have sample shoes in the various sizes and widths (can't attest to how comprehensive the range is as I'd obviously only be interested in trying on sizes within a narrow range), but not on every last. The sample shoes are on the MH71 if I'm not mistaken. So unless you are a fan of the MH71, or can work with their stock range, there is an element of risk unfortunately when commissioning an MTO.

The sample sales are a great way to see sizes in different lasts and styles - hit-and-miss, so obviously only works if you can come to London easily enough that going back empty-handed doesn't represent too much of a cost/time outlay in terms of travel.

Them's the breaks, I guess.

That is what I found exactly grc1 and I mays say explained well without all my waffle. The travelling was expensive, the time was something I really didn't want to spend and come back 'empty-handed'. "Them's the breaks, I guess" well put.

On a lighter note I have already completed stage 1 and 2 on the chestnut C&J's. Saphir conditioner, black polish to toes etc. Next some more wax gently building up the layers. Surprising what polish can do to a pair of shoes if good judgement, time and care are lavished on them.

post #16162 of 21641
Originally Posted by MasonAndSmith View Post

Gaziano Sting Ray MTO

Love these.
post #16163 of 21641
What's the up charge on that
post #16164 of 21641
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

What's the up charge on that

Good question. Betting they have to be deco too
post #16165 of 21641
post #16166 of 21641
Cross post from another thread. Got some ST James II in E width. I already went up half from my normal size.

They seem to be a bit tight up top since I have a medium to high instep. So I can't really close them fully now. Do I need an F width? They do feel uncomfortable after about an hour of wearing them without moving.

post #16167 of 21641
This is a slippery slope of broken dreams my friend, return if you are unsure. Too many costly mistakes in my own past where I tried to justify a fit that just was not right.

I saw your other post in the Skoak thread. Try a wide if you can, and ask Skoak their input. Good luck to you...
post #16168 of 21641
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

This is a slippery slope of broken dreams my friend, return if you are unsure. Too many costly mistakes in my own past where I tried to justify a fit that just was not right.

This +1000. Bear in mind you're trying to find a fit on a stock size that is a best compromise - in my case, my preferred fit of 9.5E is slightly too narrow in the ankle area and I would LOVE the instep to be more accommodating to my very high insteps. But it fits at the ball of the foot and minimises the "bubble" over my toes when the shoe flexes and stretches over time, which for me is worth sacrificing for - initially I hated the snugness, closure at the instep out of the box was the be-all-and-end-all, and to get it I went a full size up eh.gif. You can see the result of my tomfoolery (in my defense, this was back in the days before I could walk into the Savile Row store and try on fits to my heart's content - and when bonuses could be fully realised on shoes rather than kid eek.gif) in my signature below.

So if you're not sure, trust me - it's well worth the additional investment to get input on different fits until you've nailed it down.
post #16169 of 21641



See my above post.


Your shoes look like a MH71 last ?


I do "feel for you" in this respect in trying to find that best fit and so agree with JubeiSpiegel on his last comment.

I took a day out and visited Nic at Bespoke and spent few hrs trying and discussing then wondering around the beautiful village. (London being too far and too expensive) 


Once you know your last and size keep with it... because that is what fits...and remember that leather does stretch and the last thing you want is an expensive pair of shoes with a sloppy fit. When  i received my TG73 St James 2  in my normal UK9 E fit, i had difficulty breaking them in to the point of almost regret. I wore them around the house and ventured out for 30 min or so for over 2 weeks. It took some time before they broke in and now they are great snug fit.... and i almost dont notice they are on my feet.


FYI.. out of the box, they too laced up similar to yours but after many outings they now lace up as they should because the leather stretched.

Take not that if you go too wide, they will crease and become sloppy around the narrow waist and you will be able to put a few finders down the side of the shoe which looks ugly.


So, there it is... so i hear what you are saying. Ive been there done it.


It reminds me of the first time i bought my "expensive pair of shoes " being Loake 1880 Chester's.

In the shop, i could barely fit into a 9 and i though that i would never be able to wear them... and the lady did tell me that they would stretch.

I purchased a 9.5. After 6~8 months they stretched so much that i need an insole + thick sock.



For me, the MH71 last is the more roomier fit and a Derby shoe is even more relaxed over the Oxford.


In the end, you have to bite the bullet and find out what will and what will not fit you.


Hope this helps.

post #16170 of 21641
^ All great advice, and I truly feel for @blue2007 as he searches for the right answer. I'd just like to echo a few things. A sloppy fit can be almost as bad as one which is too tight. The end result is a bad fit that just wears and looks extremely bad. I can't stand the feeling one gets from swimming around in sloppy fitting shoes. It certainly appears from here that this issue only affects one foot but this is fairly typical as most of us have one foot which is bigger than the other. Hard to say if this shoe will stretch enough so that you'll no longer experience any pain. Generally for me if its snug the stretch after breaking in solves this issue and my shoes are fairly comfortable moving forward. if it causes pain with regards to being to tight then generally the shoe does not stretch to the point where they become comfortable. It's just too bad that most of us that in store comparisons for these shoes can be a bit difficult to do, but even then sometimes certain Lasts just don't work as well for some as they do others.

As mentioned you may want to consult Skoak and get their advice as well.
Edited by dddrees - 7/21/15 at 5:38am
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