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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures, etc...) - Page 1065

post #15961 of 21791
St James II but with toe medallion. Semi brogues just feel too front heavy without heel counters.
post #15962 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Did you read any of the posts Berners is referring to? I thought not. I know he didn't either. Nobody was pilloried. If disagreement or stating the facts is pillorying, y'all better hunt your holes.

Berners, be careful of the spirits you invoke.

Triple-d, All other things being equal, is moving from particle board to plywood an "upgrade?" Is moving from plywood to solid walnut an "upgrade?"

By every objective standard, leather has more structural strength and integrity than canvas. By every objective measure thread is stronger, tighter, more reliable and longer lasting than cement. By every objective criteria, high quality leather insoles trump leatherboard insoles or even thin poor quality leather insoles, all day long--for long life, for comfort, for foot health.

Just the facts, m'am

And nobody's ear got nailed to the stocks.

edited for punctuation and clarity

This is certainly one of the better posts in response to one of my questions HW vs GYW. I'm still not convinced that the differences matter so significantly that GYW are that inferior to HW shoes and there's a number of reasons for this. I know we have a thread that shows the dissection of a number of brands but have we determined that all of the GYW shoe brands use all of the cheaper methods you mentioned? Im stilll not completely convinced that the materials they re using are as determental as some might believe they are with regards to our health or durability of the shoe. It's not that I don't believe that you think they might be, I'm just not convinced they are at this point.

I'll try to have an open mind as always but I'm just not convinced that the difference is such that it's something I need to concern myself with when purchasing a pair of shoes. I don't see this HW vs GYW being a deterrminig factor or even something I should take pause with yet when selecting my shoes.

Thanks for the response @DWFII
post #15963 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

This is certainly one of the better posts in response to one of my questions HW vs GYW. I'm still not convinced that the differences matter so significantly that GYW are that inferior to HW shoes and there's a number of reasons for this. I know we have a thread that shows the dissection of a number of brands but have we determined that all of the GYW shoe brands use all of the cheaper methods you mentioned? Im stilll not completely convinced that the materials they re using are as determental as some might believe they are with regards to our health or durability of the shoe. It's not that I don't believe that you think they might be, I'm just not convinced they are at this point.

I'll try to have an open mind as always but I'm just not convinced that the difference is such that it's something I need to concern myself with when purchasing a pair of shoes. I don't see this HW vs GYW being a deterrminig factor or even something I should take pause with yet when selecting my shoes.

Thanks for the response @DWFII

Insole is the heart and bone for shoes. GYW insoles ranges from thin, thinner, to composite materials. Whereas HW insole are think.

Carved leather is structurally stronger than flipped leather reinforced by canvass (JMWestin) which is in term stronger than canvass glued on leather.

Who knows if GYW shoes is detrimental to your health? But my grandpa walked barefoot, marched in war in GYW boots, and wore only a few pairs of el cheapo loafers. He lived almost 100 years.

FWIW, and IME, HW shoes give me more support and stay supple. Of all GYW shoes, EG has most support and JL is by far the most comfortable.
post #15964 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Insole is the heart and bone for shoes. GYW insoles ranges from thin, thinner, to composite materials. Whereas HW insole are think.

Carved leather is structurally stronger than flipped leather reinforced by canvass (JMWestin) which is in term stronger than canvass glued on leather.

Who knows if GYW shoes is detrimental to your health? But my grandpa walked barefoot, marched in war in GYW boots, and wore only a few pairs of el cheapo loafers. He lived almost 100 years.

FWIW, and IME, HW shoes give me more support and stay supple. Of all GYW shoes, EG has most support and JL is by far the most comfortable.

Thank you, this too is good to know.
post #15965 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Insole is the heart and bone for shoes. GYW insoles ranges from thin, thinner, to composite materials. Whereas HW insole are think.

Carved leather is structurally stronger than flipped leather reinforced by canvass (JMWestin) which is in term stronger than canvass glued on leather.

Who knows if GYW shoes is detrimental to your health? But my grandpa walked barefoot, marched in war in GYW boots, and wore only a few pairs of el cheapo loafers. He lived almost 100 years.

FWIW, and IME, HW shoes give me more support and stay supple. Of all GYW shoes, EG has most support and JL is by far the most comfortable.

The only types that can be detrimental to your health are the cheap glued or cement construction shoes that don't even use real leather. Those are the problem. GYW vs HW isn't the problem there.

There are other factors involved than just the welting method. Finishing, lasts, etc matter a ton to people like us so as long as you know what you are getting for your money and can make an informed decision, there is no problem with either. Especially if the brand is not trying to pass itself off as HW when it is really GYW.

I have both types and love shoes that I have from both methods. If taken care of and in a rotation like most of us have there aren't many concerns of durability. I have worked with GYW pairs that are over 40 years old and still have great structural integrity.

Yes the material selection used is important but we don't know that all GYW brands use lower quality stuff. G&G uses Baker for their leather soles which is the choice of most top level bespoke makers.

In general If you are that concerned just ask people on here or the company itself on what materials are used but each person should really only care about what details matter to them and fit should be up there as the highest with style being up there next.
post #15966 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

This is certainly one of the better posts in response to one of my questions HW vs GYW. I'm still not convinced that the differences matter so significantly that GYW are that inferior to HW shoes and there's a number of reasons for this. I know we have a thread that shows the dissection of a number of brands but have we determined that all of the GYW shoe brands use all of the cheaper methods you mentioned? Im stilll not completely convinced that the materials they re using are as determental as some might believe they are with regards to our health or durability of the shoe. It's not that I don't believe that you think they might be, I'm just not convinced they are at this point.

I'll try to have an open mind as always but I'm just not convinced that the difference is such that it's something I need to concern myself with when purchasing a pair of shoes. I don't see this HW vs GYW being a deterrminig factor or even something I should take pause with yet when selecting my shoes.

Thanks for the response @DWFII

I don't know what you mean by "cheaper methods"...when it comes to methods (with the single, somewhat suspect exception that chogall mentioned) the methods for doing GYW are near-as-nevermind identical...at all price points.

When it comes to materials only the insole is really a possible variable. And even there, thinner is the norm compared to what is required for HW, simply because insoling is bought by weight and a thicker insole is not needed for GYW. Nor is high quality really. If you're not going to rely on the structural integrity of the leather holdfast you don't need a good quality insole.

Leatherboard insoles are probably not being used in high end cachet brands shoes but they are a staple of the GY process and just like the move from leather toe and heel stiffeners to celastic or plastic among those same high end manufacturers, that day may be coming.

In terms of foot health, a thicker, better quality insole makes for a better footbed. A better footbed makes for a more comfortable, healthier foot...long term. Cement is occlusive...meaning heat and moisture is held against the foot promoting bacterial and fungal diseases.

We report, you decide.

And you're welcome.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 6/30/15 at 8:13pm
post #15967 of 21791
I agree HW is the superior construction method. Although with larger rotations and poncification in which most SF'ers treat their shoes the benefits off HW shoes may be mitigated rather .

Thanks to DW again, i know this has been discussed ad nausieum.
post #15968 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bespoken pa View Post

I agree HW is the superior construction method. Although with larger rotations and poncification in which most SF'ers treat their shoes the benefits off HW shoes may be mitigated rather .

Thanks to DW again, i know this has been discussed ad nausieum.


yes i agree. 

 

and yes it has been discussed almost too much by now. that is why we have it on other threads to discuss the little details and I know that there are quite a few of us DW and I included, who love to discuss those things.

 

I think that the point has been made here though, so we can get back to G&G shoes on this thread.

post #15969 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post

I know that there are quite a few of us DW and I included, who love to discuss those things.

Well, yes and no. Of course I'd much rather that people were reasonable and objective and simply acknowledged the merits and deficits...[chuckle]. It's not like anyone here has to take personal responsibility for the the inherent weaknesses of GY.

That said, i hate to see false information bandied about--it spreads ignorance, you know.

And my name was called, perhaps even slandered, so....

As said, be careful of the spirits you invoke.

lol8[1].gif
post #15970 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Well, yes and no. Of course I'd much rather that people were reasonable and objective and simply acknowledged the merits and deficits...[chuckle]. It's not like anyone here has to take personal responsibility for the the inherent weaknesses of GY.

That said, i hate to see false information bandied about--it spreads ignorance, you know.

And my name was called, perhaps even slandered, so....

As said, be careful of the spirits you invoke.

lol8[1].gif


oh I know how it is DW. Thankfully we agree on the qualities (or lack of) in HW vs GYW. 

 

I think that people need to know the truth but only in a way to help them decide with their conscience. If they want more info than the general, they can look up the info from us referring them to other threads where we go into full detail so threads like this can stay on just the topic of what they were made to be about. In this case G&G shoes only.

 

But thanks for the input as always and they should know that if they reference you, you will come in to explain for them, just as I do when referenced. haha

post #15971 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post


The only types that can be detrimental to your health are the cheap glued or cement construction shoes that don't even use real leather. Those are the problem. GYW vs HW isn't the problem there.

There are other factors involved than just the welting method. Finishing, lasts, etc matter a ton to people like us so as long as you know what you are getting for your money and can make an informed decision, there is no problem with either. Especially if the brand is not trying to pass itself off as HW when it is really GYW.

I have both types and love shoes that I have from both methods. If taken care of and in a rotation like most of us have there aren't many concerns of durability. I have worked with GYW pairs that are over 40 years old and still have great structural integrity.

Yes the material selection used is important but we don't know that all GYW brands use lower quality stuff. G&G uses Baker for their leather soles which is the choice of most top level bespoke makers.

In general If you are that concerned just ask people on here or the company itself on what materials are used but each person should really only care about what details matter to them and fit should be up there as the highest with style being up there next.

 

I've seen plenty of old but healthy people that lived on slippers, sandles, and el cheapo glued/cemented loafers.  But I am not a medical researcher my observation is limited.

 

I know some RNs/CNAs who swear on wearing those crazy rocker bottom sneakers and doctors who wears nothing but crocs in hospitals.

 

Crazy times.

post #15972 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post
 

 

I've seen plenty of old but healthy people that lived on slippers, sandles, and el cheapo glued/cemented loafers.  But I am not a medical researcher my observation is limited.

 

I know some RNs/CNAs who swear on wearing those crazy rocker bottom sneakers and doctors who wears nothing but crocs in hospitals.

 

Crazy times.


those are completely different types of shoes though. They are not the same as the "fashion shoes" that many "professionals" wear that are just glued

 

rocker bottom sneakers actually have a purpose for certain people. Crocs and clogs do have purposes as well, but they are unique in that regard as well as being so ugly!

post #15973 of 21791
As others have said, let's get back to talking about G&G here.
post #15974 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I've seen plenty of old but healthy people that lived on slippers, sandles, and el cheapo glued/cemented loafers.  But I am not a medical researcher my observation is limited.

I know some RNs/CNAs who swear on wearing those crazy rocker bottom sneakers and doctors who wears nothing but crocs in hospitals.

"I'm a cordwainer Jim, not a doctor." That said the annals of medicine are full of folks who smoked all their lives and died in their late 80's and 90's. Their lungs were full of tar but they probably weren't gonna live much longer even if they hadn't smoked.

Undoubtedly reason enough not to quit for some people.

I myself have had injuries in such unsanitary conditions that it would have caused major infection in anyone else but I happen to be blessed with an extremely strong immune system. I once lacerated my hand deeply with a coarse woodsman's saw that had been lying on the floor in barnyard manure for at least a week. I cleaned it but didn't debride it or treat it with antibiotics. It got red around the wound but never got infected.

None of that anecdotal stuff is worth a sparrow fart.
post #15975 of 21791
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

As others have said, let's get back to talking about G&G here.

 

Here's my footprint taken by G&G.  Now I am going to talk about shoes.

 

 

 

  Quote:

Originally Posted by mw313 View Post
 


those are completely different types of shoes though. They are not the same as the "fashion shoes" that many "professionals" wear that are just glued

 

rocker bottom sneakers actually have a purpose for certain people. Crocs and clogs do have purposes as well, but they are unique in that regard as well as being so ugly!

 

Well, those rocker bottom shoes doesn't look like it has any lateral ankle support at all.

 

How about impact of double/triple leather sole shoes impact on foot health and ankle stability?  I surely don't feel the ground as well wearing double leather sole compare to single sole, and the fast wearing heels and even faster wearing toe tips creates a somewhat rocker bottom.

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