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Trump is #2 in GOP Field - Page 58

post #856 of 8748
From the MSM

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/07/donald-trump-calls-for-banning-muslims-from-entering-u-s/?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
post #857 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Do you not want to answer the question or something? Are you proposing banning all Muslims from getting visas to the US?
"These countries". Which countries? All countries with heavy Muslim populations?

I'm proposing that we drastically reduce the number of people coming into the country from places that have overwhelming support for radical views. Which countries? Well, several of the ones in the poll below would be a good start. What is the justification for importing people form a country when 63% of its people admit that death should be the punishment for leaving Islam?

I'm posting both of these because the second poll is based on the first. So, in actuality, the percentage of people in Pakistan who favor death for leaving Islam is 63% (I incorrectly stated 76% of the entire population in my previous post).
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


post #858 of 8748
What problem are you actually trying to solve here? The danger of Islamic culture being brought over by immigrants, or actual terrorists coming over to attack America? Because I seriously doubt that anyone is coming over on a student visa to stone infidels, so that's not really making your point very well.
post #859 of 8748
well i did ask about actual policies, so finally got a specific answer. awesome icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

Edit: sorry this is just the same policy for Mexicans but applied to Muslims. M-minorities beware

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/us/muslims-in-america-shattering-misperception/
Quote:
90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. American Muslim women hold more college or postgraduate degrees than Muslim men

what savages!
Edited by the shah - 12/8/15 at 7:26am
post #860 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

What problem are you actually trying to solve here? The danger of Islamic culture being brought over by immigrants, or actual terrorists coming over to attack America? Because I seriously doubt that anyone is coming over on a student visa to stone infidels, so that's not really making your point very well.

Both. Liberals should get behind a policy that limits taking people in from countries that treat women and gays as less than human, but in the hierarchy of political correctness, Muslims and open borders trump both women and gays. Bill Maher isn't exactly a conservative thinker and he's been pointing out this hypocrisy for years and trying to dispel this myth that radical beliefs are only held by a tiny fraction of Muslims.

I think several people here, in various threads over the last couple months, have spent enough time pointing out the risks. Given those risks (assuming we agree that there are actual risks), why do we need to bring people in from countries that hold radical beliefs? So we can pat ourselves on the back about how tolerant we are, despite the consequences? What are these tremendous benefits that outweigh the risks?
post #861 of 8748
Quote:
Clearly underscoring its frightening reach all the way to Washington, the Islamic State (IS), popularly known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has claimed responsibility for Republican presidential candidate for 2016 Donald Trump. This blatant attack on America bursts the myth that ISIS is limited to the Middle East and doesn’t have access to the US.

“We take complete responsibility for Donald Trump,” ISIS caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi said in an exclusive interview with Khabaristan Times. “This is the biggest attack that we have executed outside the Middle East or South Asia,” he added.

Baghdadi’s announcement comes after Trump was being lambasted by the global media for his ‘shocking’ response to a question in a Trump campaign rally in Rochester, New Hampshire. The question asked was: “When can we get rid of all the Muslims in America?”

“It is safe to say that no one has brought a bad name to so-called Muslims like we have,” Baghdadi said. “Trump is clearly following our anti-Muslim instructions,” he added.

Only after these non-violent so-called Muslims are eliminated from America, would we, the true Muslims, be able to infiltrate the US.”

The ISIS chief however expressed his surprise that no one had seen through their manoeuvre that is now ‘quite a few months old’.

“Trump, like ISIS, is against vaccinations and immigrants. He manifests supremacism as well. It’s amazing that no one has seen through the façade,” he said.

Dubbing Trump a ‘slowly ticking time bomb that would explode in 2016’, Baghdadi outlined his plans for the US.

“Trump is our khalifa for the American continents. He shall inshallah impose Shariah law in America,” he said. “We couldn’t have found anyone better to established the totalitarian, narrow and bigoted ideology and jurisprudence of ISIS.”
post #862 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

I think several people here, in various threads over the last couple months, have spent enough time pointing out the risks. Given those risks (assuming we agree that there are actual risks), why do we need to bring people in from countries that hold radical beliefs? So we can pat ourselves on the back about how tolerant we are, despite the consequences? What are these tremendous benefits that outweigh the risks?

Well, again, it really depends on whether you're talking about immigration or visas. The costs of not allowing 22% of the world's population to even visit the country should be fairly obvious. It's a huge barrier to trade, business, and tourism.

Restricting immigration from some of the more conservative countries could at least be a discussion, but cutting off visas seems like a massive overreaction.



There's also the issue of message. Coming out and making blanket policies about Muslims validates the messaging that ISIS and Al Qaeda have been pushing. We would actually be discriminating against Muslims, openly. That's a pretty potent statement.
post #863 of 8748
I'm for stopping immigration as it has been practiced since 1965 because the country is growing suckier by the year. Race relations are horrible, the American flag is banned in some schools as triggering, and we are losing California, Texas, Colorado, and Florida to the communists.
post #864 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

I think several people here, in various threads over the last couple months, have spent enough time pointing out the risks. Given those risks (assuming we agree that there are actual risks), why do we need to bring people in from countries that hold radical beliefs? So we can pat ourselves on the back about how tolerant we are, despite the consequences? What are these tremendous benefits that outweigh the risks?

Well, again, it really depends on whether you're talking about immigration or visas. The costs of not allowing 22% of the world's population to even visit the country should be fairly obvious. It's a huge barrier to trade, business, and tourism.

Restricting immigration from some of the more conservative countries could at least be a discussion, but cutting off visas seems like a massive overreaction.



There's also the issue of message.    Coming out and making blanket policies about Muslims validates the messaging that ISIS and Al Qaeda have been pushing. We would actually be discriminating against Muslims, openly. That's a pretty potent statement.    


But its also being clearly made. This is the point where we find out if people are willing to throw away a huge portion of what it has always meant to be American for the sake of some illusion of security or if they are going to man up and stand by the principles we have always fought for in the past

post #865 of 8748
I take it Muslims would be offended by discrimination against Muslims rather than by discrimination based on religion, since they don't seem to be reluctant to practice it against non-Muslims.
post #866 of 8748
Back to Trump...guess he will close down MSNBC now when he becomes POTUS. laugh.gif
post #867 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post


What is the justification for importing people form a country when 63% of its people admit that death should be the punishment for leaving Islam?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post


Liberals should get behind a policy that limits taking people in from countries that treat women and gays as less than human, but in the hierarchy of political correctness, Muslims and open borders trump both women and gays.

 

It's completely fine to disagree with U.S. immigration policy; however, you should actually understand the policy before criticizing it. One justification for allowing certain immigrants from countries that kill people for leaving Islam and that treat woman and gays as less than human is to provide refuge for the people who are victims of the beliefs and practices in those countries. As you can probably tell, 63% is not 100%, so there are some number (a minority) of people who likely are victims. This isn't rocket science. U.S. immigration policy has long provided opportunities for individuals facing persecution in their home countries, and it's been long supported by both Democrats and Republicans.

 

Again, criticize away at the policy, if you have legitimate concerns with it. For instance, people, like Trump, have expressed concern that terrorists could pose as refugees. That's a critique. However, your critique makes no sense. You're just explaining exactly why the U.S. has its refugee policy to begin with. The U.S. isn't condoning the beliefs of those countries. In fact, by giving people fleeing those beliefs a safe haven, the U.S. is condemning the beliefs. The fact that the persecuted are not the majority of their home countries is exactly the reason why they are leaving and seeking somewhere else to live.

 

So criticize away. Just, you know, find an actual critique.

post #868 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalb916 View Post

So criticize away. Just, you know, find an actual critique.

Additionally, the issue that prompted this conversation was this recent shooting. These views at home in Pakistan really have nothing to do with the shooting. It's just a general cultural critique. That's a discussion in itself, but nobody should pretend that it (or 9/11) has anything to do with immigration or shutting down visas.
post #869 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I take it Muslims would be offended by discrimination against Muslims rather than by discrimination based on religion, since they don't seem to be reluctant to practice it against non-Muslims.

Lots of reactions are irrational or not internally consistent. They're still real, and they still have costs.
post #870 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Back to Trump...guess he will close down MSNBC now when he becomes POTUS. laugh.gif

 

That will be the only thing that keeps MSNBC afloat.  Fox News got such a huge surge in viewership when Obama started badmouthing them.

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