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Trump is #2 in GOP Field - Page 346

post #5176 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I sure hope companies don't try to put any chemicals in my food.  I'm trying to avoid those.

Uranium is gluten free...
post #5177 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Trump is[URL=http:// https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/21/it-sure-sounds-like-donald-trump-is-considering-his-biggest-flip-flop-yet/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_trumpcampaign-732pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory]apparently[/URL] considering changing his proposed immigration strategy, backing off mass deportation and discussing a path to citizenship.


Of all the things to flip on, this one I don't understand. People who held his old stance against him are not going to come around and vote for him now. Many of his supporters loved that stance, and it's going to drain enthusiasm. Not that I expect competency from this campaign, but this is a deviation from what appeared to be his core strategy.


Yeah, well, in a world that makes sense and where people give a crap about consistency, I agree with you.  But I just see this as a blatant "nobody cares what we say and whether we say 2 completely inconsistent things at once" play in which they can attempt to spin this into votes from the middle/moderate/less extreme Republican voters (who can pull the lever for the "New Trump" since he has "come around" and become "more tolerant") while he will then go about winking and nodding to the old base about all the same stuff he said he would do before.  This sort of thing hasn't bit him before and I doubt it will bite him now.

 

And before anybody chimes in to say "yeah but don't most/all politicians do this same stuff all the time?" I say "yes" and "sort of" and "but not really to this extent".  I'll then add that nothing makes sense anymore and we're all fucked.

post #5178 of 8748

^ Trump supporters still wont care. Even if he changes on this topic, he'll still be 'better' than clinton in their eyes.

post #5179 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

^ Trump supporters still wont care. Even if he changes on this topic, he'll still be 'better' than clinton in their eyes.

I don't expect anyone would flip to Clinton, but it could certainly drain some enthusiasm from one of Trump's few solid bases of support. There's a good number of people who put up with Trump's shenanigans because they want to see the Wall and deportation. If they see that he's willing to ease up on that, they might just not show up.

But even if you hand Trump the ~40% that are still on his side, is this really going to pull in a lot of votes? He was at 50% before the convention, and it's been his antics that have killed him, not his political positions. Which groups were supporting Clinton instead of him because of immigration and might be willing to turn back? I can't see the play there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by budapest12 View Post


Yeah, well, in a world that makes sense and where people give a crap about consistency, I agree with you.  But I just see this as a blatant "nobody cares what we say and whether we say 2 completely inconsistent things at once" play in which they can attempt to spin this into votes from the middle/moderate/less extreme Republican voters (who can pull the lever for the "New Trump" since he has "come around" and become "more tolerant") while he will then go about winking and nodding to the old base about all the same stuff he said he would do before.  This sort of thing hasn't bit him before and I doubt it will bite him now.

And before anybody chimes in to say "yeah but don't most/all politicians do this same stuff all the time?" I say "yes" and "sort of" and "but not really to this extent".  I'll then add that nothing makes sense anymore and we're all fucked.

I think Trump's slide since the DNC shows there's still some sanity left in the process. The RNC was really his opening for a pivot, many would have written the primary off as pandering to a weird base and gladly accepted the lie if it let them vote for anyone but Hillary. But he doubled down on his themes in the convention, then kept up his antics since then. A pivot now seems like it would look desperate rather than calculated.
post #5180 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I think Trump's slide since the DNC shows there's still some sanity left in the process. The RNC was really his opening for a pivot, many would have written the primary off as pandering to a weird base and gladly accepted the lie if it let them vote for anyone but Hillary. But he doubled down on his themes in the convention, then kept up his antics since then. A pivot now seems like it would look desperate rather than calculated.

Again, I'd like to agree - this should be the case.  I'm not trying to be deliberately cynical here, but I think that the large shift in polling after the conventions suggests (more than a case for sanity) that many voters are pretty easily swayed by current stories in the news but won't necessarily hold an opinion longterm.  A little time and some shifts in the news cycles and they can forget about their reservations (which they only recently adopted anyway).  As many have said, you might not want to publicly admit voting Trump or supporting him but, given a change in the news cycle, maybe you can feel comfortable saying you will again.  The story for the election that will sell the best (get the most ratings, etc.) involves a strong Trump comeback.  That's the narrative people will be most entertained by and I find myself waiting for the seeming inevitability of it.

post #5181 of 8748
Trump has pretty much always softened his promises to enforce existing immigration laws [i.e., "mass deportation"] by saying "but then they'll come back, legally."

I don't think I've ever met a Trump supporter [or opponent] who seriously thinks he'll do half the things he says he wants to do (except build the wall). Trump himself has repeatedly said stuff like "everything's negotiable."
post #5182 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I don't think I've ever met a Trump supporter [or opponent] who seriously thinks he'll do half the things he says he wants to do (except build the wall). Trump himself has repeatedly said stuff like "everything's negotiable."


Ata is spot on, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think he can deport 11million people or build a wall(fence is a possibility though). Maybe there are people who believe every word Trump says, but really most of Trump supporters know this is tactic of his to excite people and then reach sort of a middle ground.
post #5183 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post


Ata is spot on, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think he can deport 11million people or build a wall(fence is a possibility though). Maybe there are people who believe every word Trump says, but really most of Trump supporters know this is tactic of his to excite people and then reach sort of a middle ground.

 

Yeah, you're right.  You have a unique insight into the US electorate and the supporters of the candidates.  You talk to a lot of Trump supporters in person?  Do you work with them every day?  I can tell you Trump supporters think he's going to build a wall and deport 11m people and that is a perfectly reasonable plan.

post #5184 of 8748
Maybe he should have taken the position that we would violently murder those 11 million people - nobody would be dumb enough to really believe it (nobody's ever murdered millions of people before, that's just absurd) but then you could just deport them as a middle ground?
post #5185 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

Yeah, you're right.  You have a unique insight into the US electorate and the supporters of the candidates.  You talk to a lot of Trump supporters in person?  Do you work with them every day?  I can tell you Trump supporters think he's going to build a wall and deport 11m people and that is a perfectly reasonable plan.

I mean really, watch a Trump rally. "BUILD THAT WALL" turned into a rallying cry for a reason. There's a big community of people who really want to see that happen, whether it's rallying against an Other or genuine concern about immigration. These aren't people who are expecting a pivot to nuance.


The Internet alt-right community loves to think that Trump is some kind of strategic master and every action is carefully calculated. I never believed that, and the last month is really validating that sentiment. He had a decent feel for the Republican primary audience, but people seem to forget that he only won 45% of the vote and that's with the opposition conceding with several big states left. Hillary got 55% and they'd have you believe that it was a nail-biter, only won by fraud.



My in-laws are Trump supporters. These are upper middle class, graduate educated white people. They like his stance on immigration, they hate Hillary, and they think he has "good ideas on the economy." They can't explain what those ideas are, so I'm pretty sure it's mostly the other two things. There are tons of people like them, who really want to see some kind of harsh anti-immigrant measures. Deportation, a Wall, they're not so concerned about the specifics. But they're not looking for nuance.
post #5186 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

Yeah, you're right.  You have a unique insight into the US electorate and the supporters of the candidates.  You talk to a lot of Trump supporters in person?  Do you work with them every day?  I can tell you Trump supporters think he's going to build a wall and deport 11m people and that is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Not to mention their lovely thoughts on terrorists... whoops, I mean Muslims. Some have told me they want mass deportations, but to their credit they always say "except you." inlove.gif
post #5187 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Ata is spot on, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think he can deport 11million people or build a wall(fence is a possibility though). Maybe there are people who believe every word Trump says, but really most of Trump supporters know this is tactic of his to excite people and then reach sort of a middle ground.

Yeah, you're right.  You have a unique insight into the US electorate and the supporters of the candidates.  You talk to a lot of Trump supporters in person?  Do you work with them every day?  I can tell you Trump supporters think he's going to build a wall and deport 11m people and that is a perfectly reasonable plan.

Well my family in the US for one. Bunch of people online, those US citizens i met in person this year were about my age and well and not enthusiastically but all of them will vote Hillary or not vote at all.

But yea that'sa fair criticism, people i interact with may not be representative of bulk of Trump supporters. Same with any single person really. It would be interesting to see a poll how many of Trump supporters actually believed he's gonna deport 12mil people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by budapest12 View Post

Maybe he should have taken the position that we would violently murder those 11 million people - nobody would be dumb enough to really believe it (nobody's ever murdered millions of people before, that's just absurd) but then you could just deport them as a middle ground?

also know as the reverse Hitler lol8[1].gif ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

Not to mention their lovely thoughts on terrorists... whoops, I mean Muslims. Some have told me they want mass deportations, but to their credit they always say "except you." inlove.gif

Well aren't you spanish not mexican ? -.-
Edited by wojt - 8/22/16 at 1:43pm
post #5188 of 8748
Some Spanish. Mostly Chichimeca, and Mayan.
post #5189 of 8748
Well then goodluck in november wink.gif
post #5190 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

Some Spanish. Mostly Chichimeca, and Mayan.

You and Elizabeth Warren.
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