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post #3106 of 8748
Yeah, I'd kind of consider myself half-assed watered down libertarian, but there are so many nutjobs who call themselves libertarians who just completely want to drop out from society.
post #3107 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I have strong libertarian leanings but "True Believers" are like fucking born again Christians.

That's the analogy I was going to use. Capital-L Libertarians aren't all that interesting to talk to because everything devolves into a statement of principles. It's like getting a Bible verse in response to every line of discussion. I mean, that's what you believe, but what is anybody supposed to say to it?


There are lots of libertarian aligned policy positions that many Americans are interested in: dialing back police authoritarianism, reducing the surveillance state, decriminalizing/legalizing pot and reforming other drug laws, reducing religious influence on laws, getting government out of the bedroom; you could make a whole list. But add up a whole list of stuff, enough to satisfy the Libertarians, and you get someone whose final policy platform is just too far out for most Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennglock View Post

The blindspot of most libertarians is realizing we live in a democracy, and their shit just doesn't sell.

And more specifically, we have a democracy with a structure that pretty much defaults to a two party system. Libertarianism is off the usual left/right spectrum and doesn't fall into a natural coalition where it would win enough votes to beat either of the traditional parties. The weirdness of some of the national Democratic and Republican parties emerged from cobbling together a broad enough coalition to win elections. Libertarians are a lot more narrowly focused, and that makes it damn hard to win states much less a national election.

They also don't appear to have much local organization, given the paucity of even state level legislators.
post #3108 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


That's the analogy I was going to use. Capital-L Libertarians aren't all that interesting to talk to because everything devolves into a statement of principles. It's like getting a Bible verse in response to every line of discussion. I mean, that's what you believe, but what is anybody supposed to say to it?


There are lots of libertarian aligned policy positions that many Americans are interested in: dialing back police authoritarianism, reducing the surveillance state, decriminalizing/legalizing pot and reforming other drug laws, reducing religious influence on laws, getting government out of the bedroom; you could make a whole list. But add up a whole list of stuff, enough to satisfy the Libertarians, and you get someone whose final policy platform is just too far out for most Americans.
And more specifically, we have a democracy with a structure that pretty much defaults to a two party system. Libertarianism is off the usual left/right spectrum and doesn't fall into a natural coalition where it would win enough votes to beat either of the traditional parties. The weirdness of some of the national Democratic and Republican parties emerged from cobbling together a broad enough coalition to win elections. Libertarians are a lot more narrowly focused, and that makes it damn hard to win states much less a national election.

They also don't appear to have much local organization, given the paucity of even state level legislators.

 

The problem with libertarians, Ron Swanson excluded, is they don't want anything to do with government.  They're not running for public office, they're not serving as bureaucrats, etc.

post #3109 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 


Because he is going to vote for a candidate, he has to argue each and every time you say something about him/her?

 

Read his own posts before making more stupid comments, 'mmm-k?

post #3110 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


And more specifically, we have a democracy with a structure that pretty much defaults to a two party system. Libertarianism is off the usual left/right spectrum

 

What "usual left/right spectrum"?  As was pointed out upthread, "team blue" and "team red" change their positions so frequently that the parties of today are unrecognizable from those of a generation or two ago.  You're supporting a Democrat whose foreign policy is arguably more militaristic than any Republican or Democrat of the past half-century. 

 

BTW the more accurate political spectrum isn't "left/right" but libertarian/authoritarian. 

post #3111 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I have strong libertarian leanings but "True Believers" are like fucking born again Christians.

 

So you'd rather vote for a xenophobic asshole than a successful governor because C-Span's coverage of the LP convention showed one guy wearing a tricorn hat?

post #3112 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

This thread gets dumber and dumber , so I feel compelled to contribute.
Since Chris Kyle was undoubtedly a true North American Hero, here are few true stories from his spectacular life:

Chris Kyle was an American, not a North American. Stop the lies.
post #3113 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

This thread gets dumber and dumber , so I feel compelled to contribute.
Since Chris Kyle was undoubtedly a true North American Hero, here are few true stories from his spectacular life:

Enjoy:

Chris Kyle was so awesome he once punched Ace Ventura Pet detective in the bar because he talked badly about marine fauna. True story

Chris Kyle was so awesome he once killed 13 men with one bullet at a gas station. When police arrived he showed them his CIA black belt and they let him go. True story.

Chris Kyle was so awesome, he loved stray cats. He used to go around Baghdad to collect cats, he got so many cats it was getting ridiculous and his commander had to reprimand him, but not too much because he was a cat person himself. That is how Chris Kyle got his nickname The Pussy of Baghdad. True story.

Chris Kyle was so awesome; he once bumped into Lance Armstrong at book signing. “Hey Lance you are my hero”, and Lance goes: “No Chris Kyle you are a bigger hero!”, and Chris goes: “No Lance you are” , “No Kyle you are!” and that is how they’ve became the best friends. True story.

Chris Kyle was so awesome, he once sat on the roof without pooping or peeing for 6 straight days, if not for his wife Taya he would’ve made it a week – Texas state record. True story.

Chris Kyle was so awesome, once he was at the bar and Timothy McVey walks in, he saw Chris Kyle and yelled:” I am the best sniper!”, the whole bar just laughed at him and Timothy ran out really, really upset. True story.

 

Medwed picked the wrong week to start sniffing glue.

post #3114 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post
 

The other way to look at it is this.  Most people are either partisans or not really either.  Imagine being a ideologue and imagine the frustration of dealing with the vast majority of people who are essentially "team blue" or "team red."  The positions of the parties change over time, and as a result, people just change their views because that is the way the team is going.  As an ideologue, that's hard to handle.

 

Yeah, I get called "libtard" and "reich-wing" with equal frequency by Red and Blue pom-pom girls depending on the issue.  Sometimes (recent headline: "Le Pen Insists France Give Political Asylum to Julian Assange") both simultaneously.

post #3115 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

What "usual left/right spectrum"?  As was pointed out upthread, "team blue" and "team red" change their positions so frequently that the parties of today are unrecognizable from those of a generation or two ago. 

BTW the more accurate political spectrum isn't "left/right" but libertarian/authoritarian. 





Note how libertarians are orthogonal to "liberals" and "conservatives."
post #3116 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post
 

 

Read his own posts before making more stupid comments, 'mmm-k?


You're ducking my question


Edited by venividivicibj - 6/2/16 at 1:39am
post #3117 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

That's the analogy I was going to use. Capital-L Libertarians aren't all that interesting to talk to because everything devolves into a statement of principles. It's like getting a Bible verse in response to every line of discussion. I mean, that's what you believe, but what is anybody supposed to say to it?

Oh yeah, it's much more fun talking to you statist fuckpigs who want to bomb the shit out of the world, regulate bodily intake and send us all to hell. You socialists are fucking garbage. I may be burning in the second bolgia of the eighth circle of hell but you people will be there in the ninth. You are fucking evil.
Edited by Harold falcon - 6/2/16 at 1:11am
post #3118 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post


Oh yeah, it's much more fun talking to you statist fuckpigs who want to bomb the shit out of the world, regulate bodily intake and send us all to hell. You socialists are fucking garbage. I may be burning in the second bolgia of the eighth circle of hell but you people will be there in the ninth. You are fucking evil.

 

There's the Harvy we all love.

post #3119 of 8748

Wait till the Kiddies elect Bernie then its going to be like my dads favorite threat gone meta"If you don't stop that damn whining i'll give you something to really cry about

post #3120 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

Oh yeah, it's much more fun talking to you statist fuckpigs who want to bomb the shit out of the world, regulate bodily intake and send us all to hell. You socialists are fucking garbage. I may be burning in the second bolgia of the eighth circle of hell but you people will be there in the ninth. You are fucking evil.

You vote for libertarians in local elections Harv?
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