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Trump is #2 in GOP Field - Page 207

post #3091 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


Every forum needs a token libertarian who inserts their ideologically rigid views into every single discussion topic.

 

"Ideological" - epithet hurled by ignorant partisan dullards at the principled, in lieu of cogent conversation.

post #3092 of 8748

Nick, you're not helping our cause here.

post #3093 of 8748
Has anyone considered that even at this late date, Trump might not want to be elected.

He has a pretty good life that he can return to and it's hard to believe he could/would put up with the daily microscopic reviews that Presidents get.

Obama of course got a long pass from the close reviews, but who believes that Trump would be treated like Obama.

The Vets money press conference was a good example a genuinely angry Trump ( as opposed to his typical faux anger ), and it sure didn't seem like he enjoyed it or would want to constantly have days like that.

Also, does anyone think Trump has any shame? I don't think so.
post #3094 of 8748

Why do libertarians have a reputation for ideological rigidity. Seems to be one of those  contrarian things like military intelligence

post #3095 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

Has anyone considered that even at this late date, Trump might not want to be elected.

He has a pretty good life that he can return to and it's hard to believe he could/would put up with the daily microscopic reviews that Presidents get.

Obama of course got a long pass from the close reviews, but who believes that Trump would be treated like Obama.

The Vets money press conference was a good example a genuinely angry Trump ( as opposed to his typical faux anger ), and it sure didn't seem like he enjoyed it or would want to constantly have days like that.

Also, does anyone think Trump has any shame? I don't think so.


Trump seems to be one of the things in life that I see eye to eye with you about

post #3096 of 8748

Even ignorant partisan dullards have principles only nihilist atheists are totally unprincipled

post #3097 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post
 

Nick, you're not helping our cause here.

 

Gib has made posts that have at turns disparaged Trump for not having an ideology and disparaged libertarians for having one.  He's also admitted that he'll be voting for a candidate whose record he has no intent of defending.  To paraphrase the great film noir "Out Of The Past", he is a leaf that the wind blows from one gutter to another.

post #3098 of 8748

I would think the difference between having an ideology and being ideological was obvious. Guess not

post #3099 of 8748
post #3100 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post
 

Why do libertarians have a reputation for ideological rigidity. Seems to be one of those  contrarian things like military intelligence

 

For all sorts of reasons, but the big two are:

1. Crazy people call themselves libertarian when they're not

2. When you believe all government is inherently wrong/evil/whatever (such as ancaps), it is kind of hard to find any common ground


More generally, people who are libertarian tend to be frustrated and feel marginalized by the system.  I mean, just go over to Reason and read the comments.  Most of the commenters are talking about refusing to vote for Gary Johnson this year because he's not a real libertarian.  For the first time since Perot, there is a shot of a third party getting double digits in the popular vote, and they're refusing to vote for him.  Johnson wouldn't be my first choice, and he's not really very libertarian, but he's actually the candidate with the most governing experience actually running.

 

Libertarians seemingly refuse to take advice from the axiom "don't let perfect be the enemy of good."  Rather than try to walk back big government slowly, they want to immediately dismantle it, which is unpalatable for most.  Why does government keep growing and getting more intrusive?  Because the two major parties slowly increase size and scope in their own ways.  We didn't get Obamacare before Medicare, we didn't go straight to 90% marginal income tax rates, the interstate tolls in Chicago were "temporary," etc etc.

 

Also, if my military career had worked out, I would have gone into military intelligence. :embar:

post #3101 of 8748

The other way to look at it is this.  Most people are either partisans or not really either.  Imagine being a ideologue and imagine the frustration of dealing with the vast majority of people who are essentially "team blue" or "team red."  The positions of the parties change over time, and as a result, people just change their views because that is the way the team is going.  As an ideologue, that's hard to handle.

post #3102 of 8748
The blindspot of most libertarians is realizing we live in a democracy, and their shit just doesn't sell. It didn't sell in 1935 when the country was 90% white, it's not going to sell this cycle when the country is 70% white, and in 2050 when the country is 45% white winning hearts and mind isn't going to get easier.

As political philosophy, policy prescriptions of lowercase-l libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are as good as it gets. I'd move my family to libertopia if it existed.

But you can't go from A->B. And even some libertarians launched a new state, it would degenerate leftward.. that's the piece that libertarians have failed to incorporate into their thought. It's a hard law of nature that democracies and bureaucracies drift continuously leftward. Libertopia, if it ever emerges is going to require an entirely new kind of government and incentive structure. A system remotely resembling democracy isn't going to cut it.

What does that mean for person in 2016 who would like to see the US move in a marginally more libertarian direction?

Stopping the importation of 3rd world peasants is probably your best bang for the buck. Is that one of Gary Johnson's sacred principles?
post #3103 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennglock View Post

The blindspot of most libertarians is realizing we live in a democracy, and their shit just doesn't sell. It didn't sell in 1935 when the country was 90% white, it's not going to sell this cycle when the country is 70% white, and in 2050 when the country is 45% white winning hearts and mind isn't going to get easier.

As political philosophy, policy prescriptions of lowercase-l libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are as good as it gets. I'd move my family to libertopia if it existed.

But you can't go from A->B. And even some libertarians launched a new state, it would degenerate leftward.. that's the piece that libertarians have failed to incorporate into their thought. It's a hard law of nature that democracies and bureaucracies drift continuously leftward. Libertopia, if it ever emerges is going to require an entirely new kind of government and incentive structure. A system remotely resembling democracy isn't going to cut it.

What does that mean for person in 2016 who would like to see the US move in a marginally more libertarian direction?

Stopping the importation of 3rd world peasants is probably your best bang for the buck. Is that one of Gary Johnson's sacred principles?

 

I don't necessarily think libertarianism has anything to do with whiteness.  Agreed that democracy is at odds with with libertarianism because government will always work to increase its power, and people love "free" crap.

post #3104 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post
 

 He's also admitted that he'll be voting for a candidate whose record he has no intent of defending. 


Because he is going to vote for a candidate, he has to argue each and every time you say something about him/her?

post #3105 of 8748
I have strong libertarian leanings but "True Believers" are like fucking born again Christians.
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