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Trump is #2 in GOP Field - Page 203

post #3031 of 8748
So, uh, Medwed's bizarre personal definition of war hero aside, a question related to military service and Trump:


How do people think he's less of an interventionist than Clinton? Aside from "not actually having a voting record," his public statements sure don't paint any kind of picture of a guy who is actually planning on restraining US use of force. He's repeatedly called for annexing portions of Iraq (and Syria) and taking their oil. He's still talking about "bombing the hell" out of ISIS in Iraq, Syria, and now Libya. Killing the families of terrorists, forcing the US military to use torture on captured ISIS fighters. Trump supported the Libya attacks back in 2011, then complained shortly thereafter that we didn't swoop in an annex their oil fields in payment for our help.


Trump has mimed some of the words people want to hear about non-interventionism, but why would anyone believe it? How do you guys see this as some big point in his favor? At best it's a wash, but again, god knows what you're going to get with Trump.
post #3032 of 8748

I asked this same question a couple days ago all I got was some mild snark and one guy who defended himself ( and rightfully so I might add)

post #3033 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

So, uh, Medwed's bizarre personal definition of war hero aside, a question related to military service and Trump:


How do people think he's less of an interventionist than Clinton? Aside from "not actually having a voting record," his public statements sure don't paint any kind of picture of a guy who is actually planning on restraining US use of force. He's repeatedly called for annexing portions of Iraq (and Syria) and taking their oil. He's still talking about "bombing the hell" out of ISIS in Iraq, Syria, and now Libya. Killing the families of terrorists, forcing the US military to use torture on captured ISIS fighters. Trump supported the Libya attacks back in 2011, then complained shortly thereafter that we didn't swoop in an annex their oil fields in payment for our help.


Trump has mimed some of the words people want to hear about non-interventionism, but why would anyone believe it? How do you guys see this as some big point in his favor? At best it's a wash, but again, god knows what you're going to get with Trump.

 

When he was on the debate stage, he said some anti-interventionalist things, which compared to Ted Cruz and Marco Rubios plans to bomb the sand until it glows, seems pretty tame.

 

We have had discussions before about Trump's success, and one thing that continues to stick with me is this idea that people just attach whatever views they have on to him.  The more I talk to some Trump supporters I know, they talk about how he's going to do x, y, and z.  Except there is video and recordings of him changing his tune even day to day.

 

Is he for private health insurance?  Or is Canadian health care great?  Is he for taking all the ME oil, or is he going to stay out of their affairs?

No one knows.

post #3034 of 8748

Don't need to be a psychiatrist to see why Medwed is attracted to Trump

post #3035 of 8748
Even Chris Kyle said that Medals were mostly given to asskissers (not "heroes"), and that's why he was ashamed to display them.
post #3036 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

So, uh, Medwed's bizarre personal definition of war hero aside, a question related to military service and Trump:


How do people think he's less of an interventionist than Clinton? Aside from "not actually having a voting record," his public statements sure don't paint any kind of picture of a guy who is actually planning on restraining US use of force. He's repeatedly called for annexing portions of Iraq (and Syria) and taking their oil. He's still talking about "bombing the hell" out of ISIS in Iraq, Syria, and now Libya. Killing the families of terrorists, forcing the US military to use torture on captured ISIS fighters. Trump supported the Libya attacks back in 2011, then complained shortly thereafter that we didn't swoop in an annex their oil fields in payment for our help.


Trump has mimed some of the words people want to hear about non-interventionism, but why would anyone believe it? How do you guys see this as some big point in his favor? At best it's a wash, but again, god knows what you're going to get with Trump.

 

When he was on the debate stage, he said some anti-interventionalist things, which compared to Ted Cruz and Marco Rubios plans to bomb the sand until it glows, seems pretty tame.

 

We have had discussions before about Trump's success, and one thing that continues to stick with me is this idea that people just attach whatever views they have on to him.  The more I talk to some Trump supporters I know, they talk about how he's going to do x, y, and z.  Except there is video and recordings of him changing his tune even day to day.

 

Is he for private health insurance?  Or is Canadian health care great?  Is he for taking all the ME oil, or is he going to stay out of their affairs?

No one knows.


Don't you think he is just saying what he  thinks is the best thing to say in order to present himself in the best possible light at that moment. I don't think he really cares about anything outside of Donald Trump and whats in it for Donald Trump. I"m just amazed that his supporters don't observe that. Unless they share that philosophy or really are as stupid as they appear

post #3037 of 8748
So the real outcome of this is that no one is going to take Medwed seriously (if they ever did)
post #3038 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

So the real outcome of this is that no one is going to take Medwed seriously (if they ever did)


Passive- Agressive troll 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

Even Chris Kyle said that Medals were mostly given to asskissers (not "heroes"), and that's why he was ashamed to display them.


Chris Kyle was a psychopath. He got his rewards in other ways . Definitely someone you would want to share a fighting hole with though

post #3039 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

When he was on the debate stage, he said some anti-interventionalist things, which compared to Ted Cruz and Marco Rubios plans to bomb the sand until it glows, seems pretty tame.

We have had discussions before about Trump's success, and one thing that continues to stick with me is this idea that people just attach whatever views they have on to him.  The more I talk to some Trump supporters I know, they talk about how he's going to do x, y, and z.  Except there is video and recordings of him changing his tune even day to day.

Is he for private health insurance?  Or is Canadian health care great?  Is he for taking all the ME oil, or is he going to stay out of their affairs?


No one knows.

That's the thing, right? He's a chimera. You could assign any belief system to him and pull statements that might support it. And the people who buy that are often the same people who loath Hillary for being a shifting in the wind politician. They even acknowledge that Trump does it, but give him points for it somehow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post

Don't need to be a psychiatrist to see why Medwed is attracted to Trump

I've noticed something this election cycle. I voted for Bush twice and Obama twice, but each time, I could find arguments supporting the other guy that I respected, from people I respected. You see somebody smart touting their support for Romney or whoever and think "Huh, maybe they have a point." I haven't seen that at all with Trump.

It's interesting that none of the usual conservatives in this forum are out supporting Trump. Half the population of CE left back in 2011 because of how obnoxious four or five posters were about Romney and against Obama, but they're dead quiet about Trump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post


Don't you think he is just saying what he  thinks is the best thing to say in order to present himself in the best possible light at that moment. I don't think he really cares about anything outside of Donald Trump and whats in it for Donald Trump. I"m just amazed that his supporters don't observe that. Unless they share that philosophy or really are as stupid as they appear

Sure. That's why I think these statements going back before he was Republican-nominee-apparent Trump are useful, because it kind of gives some insight into where his mind and values go when he's not actively pandering to this particular set of people.


I think most of them do know that Trump is pandering, but somehow they love him for it and hate all the politicians. Like, he gets credit for being so adroit to pander and get away with it (despite the fact that they're the ones letting him get away with it).



My in-laws are voting Trump. They'd vote for anyone with an (R), but they're actually enthusiastic about it. Mostly because they hate Hillary (and irrationally too, like going back to culture war bullshit from the 90s), but they actually like his policies. They can somehow simultaneously say that reducing the debt is their biggest priority, but that Trump's tax plan is the best thing ever. They've just chosen to turn off their brains and not do the slightest bit of critical thinking about his claims. It's strange, and they're smart people.
post #3040 of 8748

I'm not a bible thumper by any means but don't you think that the spirit of turning the other cheek is a warning that hate as a motivator only leads one down a rabbit hole of misery and ignorance

post #3041 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Trump has mimed some of the words people want to hear about non-interventionism, but why would anyone believe it? How do you guys see this as some big point in his favor? At best it's a wash, but again, god knows what you're going to get with Trump.

Well, as I learned here in the CE during Obama's first election, this is just shit you say to get elected. It's like prison sex, i.e. you're not really gay and get a pass on it (re-watching Sopranos.)
post #3042 of 8748

Even after you're elected "Ah did not have sex with that woman"

post #3043 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post


Passive- Agressive troll 


Chris Kyle was a psychopath. He got his rewards in other ways . Definitely someone you would want to share a fighting hole with though

Not sure about that, but he wasn't the only one who has questioned "war heroes." A couple of years ago a book came out about a very controversial Special Forces soldier, and he also agreed with Chris Kyle, and took it a step further. Not gonna mention what he said about Arlington. What do I know? I didn't do a tour, so I have no idea what goes on during war. Sorry, if I offended any vets.
post #3044 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Well, as I learned here in the CE during Obama's first election, this is just shit you say to get elected. It's like prison sex, i.e. you're not really gay and get a pass on it (re-watching Sopranos.)

I can't quite articulate exactly how far politician ought to be able to get away with that, but "say literally anything, it's just campaign talk" doesn't quite ring right. Anybody with some political sensibility is going to understand that politicians stretch their goals for the campaign, and swing right/left (respectively) during the primaries. But you generally have a picture of what they stand for and who they are. Trump's given us nothing really. The only constants are his personality and a general policy of domestic protectionism (economic and immigration). Even there the details vary wildly. His whole campaign is basically a cult of personality.


And unlike the usual campaign talk, some of this stuff would be impactful in real world governing. You think the Muslim world isn't paying attention to Trump talking about annexing oilfields? Even if he doesn't do it, those statements are out there and it's going to make people question the motives of anything President Trump might do in the Middle East.
post #3045 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre Secreto View Post

Not sure about that, but he wasn't the only one who has questioned "war heroes." A couple of years ago a book came out about a very controversial Special Forces soldier, and he also agreed with Chris Kyle, and took it a step further. Not gonna mention what he said about Arlington. What do I know? I didn't do a tour, so I have no idea what goes on during war. Sorry, if I offended any vets.

I think there's a pretty legit conversation about how we're diluted the meaning of "hero" down to the point where it's meaningless. Everyone who served can't be a hero, it should entail something out of the ordinary.

But questioning McCain? What's the point there? Dude suffered extremely in the service of his country in the military, and then came home and did it for the rest of his life in government.
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