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Trump is #2 in GOP Field - Page 196

post #2926 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

Yes, the difference between a good idea and a bad idea often reduces to a matter of degree. A ten-mile wall (or whatever) might be a good idea when a 2,000-mile wall is a batshit stupid idea. Or, a ten-mile wall that's commensurate with the problem at hand might be a good idea. In order for a 2,000-mile wall to be a good idea, there had better be a horde of conquerors on the other side who are mysteriously powerful despite lacking modern wall-breaching (or flying) capabilities. Last time I checked there is no such horde of conquerors except in the imaginations of Trump-supporting mouthbreathers.

I don't know anything about these Clinton walls that you've latched onto in your desperate attempt to say something clever. Maybe they were effective, maybe they weren't. I have no idea. But I do know that Trump's non-plan to build a 2,000-mile wall is fucking stupid. The mere fact that these Clinton walls were apparently actually constructed whereas we all know nobody's going to build a wall across the entire U.S. - Mexico border is indicator enough of just how stupid Trump's rhetoric is.

Now stop wasting my time.

I enjoy how you tell me you don't know anything about the topic yet are convinced I'm saying nothing of merit. I will grant you that as I'm an idiot you are probably correct there. frown.gif

Btw, horde of conquerors? Not this generation but the Reconquista is most certainly occurring. I'm not saying whether this is a good thing or a bad thing but to deny it's happening is silly.
post #2927 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Oh, so your beef with Trump's wall is a matter of degree I guess? Clinton's was stupid but Trump's is stupider? And now you're stipulating Clinton's impetus was not dissimilar to Trump's?

That would be my objection to it. Trump's comprehensive solution is Wall + Deportation, which is not really tenable for multiple reasons and prevents discussion of more plausible solutions. This is a grownup problem, and needs grownups talking about how to fix it, not Pie in the Sky symbolic gestures.


I also think Trump is a stubborn enough jackass that he'd actually try to force Mexico to pay, which a foolish way to damage relations with them.
post #2928 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

That would be my objection to it. Trump's comprehensive solution is Wall + Deportation, which is not really tenable for multiple reasons and prevents discussion of more plausible solutions. This is a grownup problem, and needs grownups talking about how to fix it, not Pie in the Sky symbolic gestures.


I also think Trump is a stubborn enough jackass that he'd actually try to force Mexico to pay, which a foolish way to damage relations with them.

Hasn't Obama gone on record as saying he's deported more people than any other POTUS? I guess, once again, it's a matter of degree.

Mexico is one country the US doesn't really need to worry about relations with...just like Canada. Both need the US far more and are going to kowtow in the end no matter what.
post #2929 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Hasn't Obama gone on record as saying he's deported more people than any other POTUS? I guess, once again, it's a matter of degree.

Of course it's a matter of degree. Deporting criminals or people caught at the border is a hugely different story from trying to round up 12 million people. The effects on society would be enormous from the latter. Just think about how that would have to be implemented. How do you do something like that without a massively intrusive policing effort, and one that would basically be forced to target brown people?
Quote:
Mexico is one country the US doesn't really need to worry about relations with...just like Canada. Both need the US far more and are going to kowtow in the end no matter what.

Seems like fucking with them over an off the cuff campaign statement turned slogan is still a bad idea.
post #2930 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

There are studies that show that blacks receive a 230 point bonus on their SAT score. Hispanics get a 185 point bonus, and Asians have a 50 point SAT penalty.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html


Affirmative action devalues achievements of privileged minority students. It turns an Ivy League degree into a participation trophy.

As a high-achieving Asian American, I really appreciate your concern for my plight.

Just kidding. I think you're an asshole.
post #2931 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Of course it's a matter of degree. Deporting criminals or people caught at the border is a hugely different story from trying to round up 12 million people. The effects on society would be enormous from the latter. Just think about how that would have to be implemented. How do you do something like that without a massively intrusive policing effort, and one that would basically be forced to target brown people?
Seems like fucking with them over an off the cuff campaign statement turned slogan is still a bad idea.

I've read the Obama administration is responsible for deporting 2.5 million folks or so. So that's 20% of 12 million, roughly, and if you want to make the case that entire 20% were criminals things are going to get ugly as Trump's rhetoric. Of course one could not assume that 20% represented ALL the criminals too so it would make Trump's rhetoric sound more and more accurate, no?

But yeah, bad idea. It's Trump's M.O. Say something stupid off the cuff and then run with it.

So to sort of answer EtO: I think it's important to consider how each side, and each person on each side, gets viewed in the societal metanarrative, in the MSM, etc. when they say and do pretty damn similar things at times. Think of Clinton signing DoMA. If Bush had done that would he have basically taken no hit as Clinton? Hell, I've recently had someone tell me Obama "undid Bush's crime against humanity," namely DoMA which this jackass thought was a Bush piece of legislation.
post #2932 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I've read the Obama administration is responsible for deporting 2.5 million folks or so. So that's 20% of 12 million, roughly, and if you want to make the case that entire 20% were criminals things are going to get ugly as Trump's rhetoric. Of course would could not assume that 20% represented ALL the criminals too so it would make Trump's rhetoric sound more and more accurate, no?

I quoted that number at Ataturk at some point, and I believe he was correct in noting that many of those are people turned away at the border. The statistics no longer discriminate between the two groups, so kind of hard to tell.

If I remember the numbers correctly, the number of illegal immigrants has dipped slightly over Obama's tenure. I think the difference in effect on society from holding the numbers steady vs a campaign of complete removal would be quite stark.
Quote:
It's Trump's M.O. Say something stupid off the cuff and then run with it.

Exactly the kind of personality we want from our President!


I wonder how many of Trump's fans also massacred Obama for the "red line" comment.
post #2933 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

I quoted that number at Ataturk at some point, and I believe he was correct in noting that many of those are people turned away at the border. The statistics no longer discriminate between the two groups, so kind of hard to tell.

If I remember the numbers correctly, the number of illegal immigrants has dipped slightly over Obama's tenure. I think the difference in effect on society from holding the numbers steady vs a campaign of complete removal would be quite stark.
Exactly the kind of personality we want from our President!


I wonder how many of Trump's fans also massacred Obama for the "red line" comment.

Well, isn't the reason there are few illegals is because states like Arizona are passing "bigoted" laws? Sheriff Arpiao? Etc.

It's obvious deporting all those folks is a non-starter.
post #2934 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbernine View Post

At what points does this wall become insurmountable enough to  be more than a minor inconvenience

Ask Israel.
post #2935 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

As a high-achieving Asian American, I really appreciate your concern for my plight.

Just kidding. I think you're an asshole.
You are just grateful you don't have to eat the banh mi at Oberlin.
post #2936 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

There are studies that show that blacks receive a 230 point bonus on their SAT score. Hispanics get a 185 point bonus, and Asians have a 50 point SAT penalty.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html


Affirmative action devalues achievements of privileged minority students. It turns an Ivy League degree into a participation trophy.

This paints inaccurate picture. Asians (depending on which country they are from) are also eligible for affirmative action in US. Unfortunately a lot of them go into science because graduate degrees in science are free in US and then proceed to waste a lot of resources and funds producing nothing of value.
post #2937 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


That would be my objection to it. Trump's comprehensive solution is Wall + Deportation, which is not really tenable for multiple reasons and prevents discussion of more plausible solutions. This is a grownup problem, and needs grownups talking about how to fix it, not Pie in the Sky symbolic gestures.
 

 

Too bad there's not a two-term border-state governor in the race to provide some informed and mature content to the immigration discussion...

 

Seriously though, what is one POSITIVE thing you have to say to justify your vote for HRC?  All we've seen from you is "she's not Trump".  Put up or shut up, Gib.

post #2938 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

This paints inaccurate picture. Asians (depending on which country they are from) are also eligible for affirmative action in US. Unfortunately a lot of them go into science because graduate degrees in science are free in US and then proceed to waste a lot of resources and funds producing nothing of value.

The H1b program really isn't the same question as "affirmative action." H1b's aren't displacing Americans from slots in graduate programs as a rule, we've just massively expanded the number of slots available. It's absolutely a problem of resource allocation, degradation of the domestic scientific training process, and training competing nations in how we do science. But it's not affirmative action, especially since there's a bias against foreign students if anything.
post #2939 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCarraway View Post

Too bad there's not a two-term border-state governor in the race to provide some informed and mature content to the immigration discussion...

Seriously though, what is one POSITIVE thing you have to say to justify your vote for HRC?  All we've seen from you is "she's not Trump".  Put up or shut up, Gib.

My enthusiasm for Hillary is not great enough to spend any serious amount of time defending her or her record. So...no, I won't be doing that.
post #2940 of 8748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

This paints inaccurate picture. Asians (depending on which country they are from) are also eligible for affirmative action in US. Unfortunately a lot of them go into science because graduate degrees in science are free in US and then proceed to waste a lot of resources and funds producing nothing of value.

lol8[1].gif
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