Who Owns Your Mortgage

Good segment tonight on 60 Minutes about the mortgage mess and fraud. Here is the full 60 Minutes Episode from tonight. Here is a link to The 60 minutes show, overtime with additional information. that goes over much of this. 60 Minutes was typically liberal and evidently wanted to slant the story as an example what the evil banks did ( and they absolutely did commit fraud ) ! But CBS seemed mostly right and sure made a lot of anti - bank points which were correct. 60 Minutes was mostly right in their reort. But there are many, many questions unanswered, and a real shitstorm has been created. I can easily see where someone that had a rising interest rate loan or lost their job might be a genuine candidate for a loan modification. But what of the literally millions of people that have intentionally not made a home payment in a year plus, are waiting for a foreclosure and then hoping to forestall it indefinitely ( and finally get a penalty payment from the bank when they leave )? The TV program made it clear that the banks committed massive fraud up to and including documented forgery of documents so they could finalize some of these foreclosures. Now, predictably, the lawyers have got involved and they want to sue the banks and punish them for their fraud. And it was inferred that consumer advocates were trying to get the banks to set up a fund to pay these home owners ( who have not made a payment for years, and are now seeking payments from the banks whereas their neighbors who had paid their mortgages in a timely manner will get nothing. ) Here is a link about Sheila Blair and the call for a super fund to clean up the bank mess. Why do I feel this F/*p by the banks will come out of the Government/my pocket? As I said. A real shitstorm. Who is right? I don't feel bad about most of these delinquent home owners. But massive documented fraud by the banks was committed!! What is the right thing to do about them? And what of the home owners that borrowed money from the same mortgage companies but somehow managed to keep current? Sometimes by working 2nd jobs or cutting back on everything. Do they deserve nothing? Finally, what of those people that own homes free and clear in the same neighborhoods? Are they just screwed, even though the fraud caused a massive amount of loss of equity for them? As I said, a real shitstorm. This will effect the home market for years. What do you think? Both home owners and non home owners out there.

Most of the paperwork that is being f-ed up is procedural. If the banks took more time to do the paperwork correctly, the end result would still be the same: foreclosure.

isn't it better to side with the little guy (the homeowners) in a situation like this? i mean, if it's procedural like dakota rube is saying, than it's probably not going to happen again.

Originally Posted by Teger

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isn't it better to side with the little guy (the homeowners) in a situation like this? i mean, if it's procedural like dakota rube is saying, than it's probably not going to happen again.

How do you "side" with the little guy? This is about people not having the cash flow to service their mortgages.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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How do you "side" with the little guy? This is about people not having the cash flow to service their mortgages.

well, it seems the heart of the question that rnoldh posed was in a situation wherein someone whose defaulted on their mortgage is staying in their house because of fraud/impropriety by a bank, what should we do? I think we should let the people stay and sort out the mess with the banks first.

Originally Posted by Teger

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well, it seems the heart of the question that rnoldh posed was in a situation wherein someone whose defaulted on their mortgage is staying in their house because of fraud/impropriety by a bank, what should we do? I think we should let the people stay and sort out the mess with the banks first.

But of course you do.

I watched the piece. It wasn't that these people were making their payments but the bank committed fraud and "stole" their homes. No, they were in foreclosure for non-payment. Given this, I do not know why you would think this makes sense. Well, I lie, as actually I have a pretty good idea of why you do.

Seeking remedy against the banks is a different issue from the fact one cannot pay their mortgage. Both situations can be dealt with simultaneously.

So, you guys let me know when I should break out my pitchfork. I'm pretty much up always for a good rich-guy lynching.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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Most of the paperwork that is being f-ed up is procedural. If the banks took more time to do the paperwork correctly, the end result would still be the same: foreclosure.

It might have been procedural but in some states it is necessary to implement the foreclosure. And as they showed on the segment, much of the paperwork was out and out fraud and forgery committed by the banks!

What should the penalty to the banks be ( if any )? Should these people that could not or would not pay their mortgages ( could not and would not are quite different ) end up with free homes, because fraud was committed? Why should a deadbeat have a better result than someone who really struggled to keep current on their mortgage?

Those people that were responsible and did not fall behind in their mortgages. They are being screwed by losing equity. Are they due anything?

I see some huge fund being announced that will address this issue. And while it will be said that the banks are contributing to the fund I have an idea that it will come out of the taxpayers pocket.

Finally, there are different categories of a Little Guy! If it is someone that bought a home for their family and was laid off and is struggling to save their dream home and have a place for their family, then I am all for a loan modification.

But that is nothing like those that have 2nd homes or investment properties and have decided to let them go back. Or those that have chosen a strategic foreclosure ( there are many articles about this )and are walking on a property because they are so much upside down they would rather walk on the property rather than even attempt negotiating with the loan holder.

I really did not realize how far we are from a healthy RE market.

piobaire you've really worked hard on the smug dismissiveness over the last 6 months. i don't really have an ideological stake on either side of this.

Originally Posted by Teger

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isn't it better to side with the little guy (the homeowners) in a situation like this? i mean, if it's procedural like dakota rube is saying, than it's probably not going to happen again.

More than ideological, this seems a a definite opinion.

By siding with the little guy, do you mean that all people or some people that were victims of foreclosure fraud should get free homes or just some of them. And in that case, which ones?

As to your second point, you are probably right. There will be a knee jerk reaction, and in the future you can almost guarantee that all the Is will be dotted and Ts crossed in future foreclosure proceedings. There certainly has been a knee jerk reaction in mortgage lending from one extreme to another.

Originally Posted by Teger

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piobaire you've really worked hard on the smug dismissiveness over the last 6 months. i don't really have an ideological stake on either side of this.

Originally Posted by Teger

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isn't it better to side with the little guy (the homeowners) in a situation like this? i mean, if it's procedural like dakota rube is saying, than it's probably not going to happen again.

Originally Posted by rnoldh

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More than ideological, this seems a a definite opinion.

By siding with the little guy, do you mean that all people or some people that were victims of foreclosure fraud should get free homes or just some of them. And in that case, which ones?

As to your second point, you are probably right. There will be a knee jerk reaction, and in the future you can almost guarantee that all the Is will be dotted and Ts crossed in future foreclosure proceedings. There certainly has been a knee jerk reaction in mortgage lending from one extreme to another.

you're right, there's a lot of categories/gradients to the 'little guy'. but is there really the time, money and effort to go in and pick out who gets to stay and who gets booted regardless? what standard are we applying? id rather paint with too broad a brush than too narrow of one.

Originally Posted by Teger

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you're right, there's a lot of categories/gradients to the 'little guy'. but is there really the time, money and effort to go in and pick out who gets to stay and who gets booted regardless? what standard are we applying? id rather paint with too broad a brush than too narrow of one.

Why can't those of us that have been paying our mortgages get some free **** too?

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Why can't those of us that have been paying our mortgages get some free **** too?

because life isn't fair? why does affirmative action exist? there's lots of examples of **** not being 'fair.' sure, it sucks that you're paying your mortgage and some people are getting away owning a house they can't afford, but is the solution to vindictively pursue their eviction even in circumstances that might not warrant it?

Originally Posted by Teger

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because life isn't fair? why does affirmative action exist? there's lots of examples of **** not being 'fair.' sure, it sucks that you're paying your mortgage and some people are getting away owning a house they can't afford, but is the solution to vindictively pursue their eviction even in circumstances that might not warrant it?

You're not so naive as to believe that the house is actually free are you?