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EG advise against Topy rubber soles - Page 7

post #91 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
Think of compressed gas. In it's heavily compressed form you have lots of gas in a small space. Now release the pressure and it goes flying around.

If it gets cold enough oxygen does become a liquid. If water gets hot enough it turns to a gas (aka steam). In it's gas form you'll notice it rises.

Although the reason the gas form of water rises is due to the temperature difference. PV=nRT therefore per unit area a hotter gas will be at a lower pressure (and therefore rise) than the same gas at a lower temperature.
post #92 of 129
^ Thank you. I'll have to think about this. I keep coming back tot the idea of water molecules displacing air molecules in any volume of air. Tell me when I misstep... If we have two balloons one filled with nothing but air and the other with 5% water. which will be heavier/denser? No, I'm not arguing--henceforth I'll tell people/assume that moist air is lighter than dry air...but I just can't seem to get my head around it.
post #93 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post
no offense, this is a discussion around the emperors beard. i hear you walking, though.

I'm not sure I understood that.

As for DWFII's assertions, they are rather amusing: calling people armchairs scientists, questioning fellow cobbler's credentials, and then going on listing "facts" that he has observed. Could this be any more subjective? If these were such well known facts, we wouldn't be discussing them at length here, would we?

If I follow his drift, on a particularly hot day, when one's foot has generated much perspiration, the outsole would be moist to the touch. Funny how I've never noticed this. Ever. Has anyone? No? Thought so.

Sorry, I'll stick to what my cobbler, who has gone through hundreds of JL, C&J, EG, JMW etc. has told me. I've just sent him two pairs of 10 years old shoes, that he fitted with rubber outsoles, to be re-soled. I don't expect any issue, like there haven't been any on the previous 5 pairs I've sent him.
post #94 of 129
So how much time is needed to dry a leather soled shoe? And is there a specific way to do it? I typically stick with rubber soles during rainy days...
post #95 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
^ Thank you. I'll have to think about this. I keep coming back tot the idea of water molecules displacing air molecules in any volume of air. Tell me when I misstep...

If we have two balloons one filled with nothing but air and the other with 5% water. which will be heavier/denser?

No, I'm not arguing--henceforth I'll tell people/assume that moist air is lighter than dry air...but I just can't seem to get my head around it.

Assuming that they are identical in all other respects (pressure, temperature etc.) then the 5% water will be lighter.
post #96 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post
I typically stick with rubber soles during rainy days...
Careful!!! Are you insane? DWFII will soon explain to you that, because of the rubber sole, the insole is rotten to the core and full of bacteria from hell. You'll soon catch gangrene and your feet will fall off. It's a fact.
post #97 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
^ Thank you. I'll have to think about this. I keep coming back tot the idea of water molecules displacing air molecules in any volume of air. Tell me when I misstep... If we have two balloons one filled with nothing but air and the other with 5% water. which will be heavier/denser? No, I'm not arguing--henceforth I'll tell people/assume that moist air is lighter than dry air...but I just can't seem to get my head around it.
Have a look at these, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_matter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density You have to consider the state (solid, liquid, gas, let's ignore plasma) of the matter in question, and it's relative density, not it's weight. It's not so much whether h2o weighs more or less than "air" in a given state, it's the relatively density. Water vapor is gaseous. That's why it floats around. When air becomes saturated enough with water vapor, at a given temperature and pressure, the water vapor undergoes a phase change int a liquid state, and we get rain. At the same time, liquid water is constantly undergoing a phase change to a gaseous state, and floating up in the air. If water were simply a liquid that is heavier than air, then it would never go into the air, there would be no humidity, no rain. In the case of damp shoes, it's not liquid water moving to a dryer area, it's water vapor sublimating. It's going to move to a less dense area.
post #98 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendulum View Post
Assuming that they are identical in all other respects (pressure, temperature etc.) then the 5% water will be lighter.

This.
post #99 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanker2000fr View Post
Secondly, not all rubber inserts are born equal: Topy's are actually cheap, thick, rigid crap made of vulcanized rubber. On the other end of the spectrum, you have inserts made of natural rubber, that are thinner, more flexible, and virtually invisible unless you look directly under the sole. Illustration:








What brand of rubber soles are those?
post #100 of 129
WADR to every one's comments.
I have handled 10's of thousands of high-grade shoes during my 34 years. We work on EG's, CJ's, Church's, Westons, Lobbs and more every day. I have relationships with several high ranking executives in the high-grade shoe industry. We talk shop all the time. I understand their business. They understand mine. We all understand that they are two different things.
Now, to disclose: I've never worked on a pair of shoes in my life. Don't possibly have the time to.
I supervise and direct. I have also worked with some of the most talented craftsmen throughout the world. Some have resented me. Others love working with me. Here's why, I like to share what I learn from all my resources in the shop. Some guys are too hard-headed to learn. I also incorporate heavily what I learn from customers comments/experiences.
Having explained, to say sole guards shorten a shoes life, I've never seen it happen.
I liken it to finding a hair on an egg then, splitting the hair.
BTW I never saw a pair of CJ's for instance, with a Dainite sole, come in with blackened or prematurely ruined insoles because of a rubber sole.
I'll agree to disagree but, to me it simply comes down to personal preference.
post #101 of 129
I very seriously suspect that blackened insoles have nothing to do with whatever outsole material is used, or if the sole was later covered with a guard.

Rather, it's likely related to the body chemistry of the person that wore the shoes.

Similarly, I imagine the above, and the nature of the adhesive binder used, has a lot to do with deterioration of the cork footbed.
post #102 of 129
I've seen this over the course of 40 years. With many, many brands of shoes and boots. We had this same discussion about gemming. I reported what I had seen, what I had dealt with, what I knew. And out of the woodwork came all these denials based on zero experience...not much more than wishful thinking, really. So, at one point, I documented some of my experiences with photos...guess what? Not a peep. People believe what they want to believe even if all the evidence contradicts it. "Don't confuse me with the facts." If you read this whole thread or at least the part starting yesterday, I never completely dissed Topy (metal toe plates that's another thing). I did question all the vociferous assertions that Topy...any kind of rubber...provided better traction. That's mostly rubbish as evidenced by my hypothetical flyfishing adventure the Cascades. But if Topy makes you feel more confidant, go for it. For those in harsher climes...Ontario, for example...try driving on ice without studs--on bare rubber, IOW. The tire companies can tout "All-Weather tires till the cows come home but if you've got ice, or worse, black ice, good luck with that. I never called anyone an "armchair scientist," esp. not in a pejorative sense...I was politely responding to being called an armchair scientist...in fact, I said that I thought it might be a good thing. But inevitably the self-absorbed and self-congratulatory adrenaline junkies come out...the teenagers (in mind if not in body)...who let their hyperactive imaginations overcome what little rationality and self-control might be mustered, and all of a sudden people are responding to things I never said. Blackened insoles...suspect what you want...and I am certain body chemistry does play a part. But moisture held against the insole is a petri dish for bacterial and fungal growth. It is hot and humid in there...truly a tropical environment...and changes take place in the leather. Look at your two year old high enfd shoes.. Are the insoles still that mellow honey colour? If not...well you're well on your way to proving what i assert. Nevermind that 99%of the people here will throw their shoes away before they will stick their noses down inside a shoe much less get to the point that insole cracking becomes a problem. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening. If you doubt all that...and doubt EG's commitment to their customers when they advise against Topy...why then there's really no reason to buy shoes with leather outsoles, in the first place. Or leather shoes, for that matter. And good luck with that, too. And just for the record...technically, historically and in every way that matters when people sit down to have an adult conversation...I'm a shoemaker, not a cobbler.
post #103 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd I/O View Post
What brand of rubber soles are those?

These aren't my shoes, but I have the exact same soles under all of my shoes. Don't know the brand, unfortunately. Maybe you could drop a line at the Cordonnerie Duret, rue Duret Paris 16 (phone should be easy to find).
post #104 of 129
still haven't answered why EG then puts Dainite, Medways, Ridgeways, and Commandoes on leather soles, if it promotes rotting.

EG would be much more endearing if they just said: "we won't work on shoes that have been resoled/cobbled/modified elsewhere, because we are losing business"
post #105 of 129
For me, wearing a rubber topy sole on a shoe would be akin to wearing cloth tape inside the neck of my shirt.
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