HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III

Klobber · Sep 20, 2011

Orgetorix said:
Today's fit a bit of a fail IMO...I think there's too little contrast between suit and shirt and too great a contrast between those two and the tie. This tie is probably a good example of why Manton hates red ties.

You dont look too bad. The main thing is your jacket looks too short. It is hard to judge since it depends also on the trousers. If rise too large / pants worn too low on the waist, then jacket looks like it is too short even if it was the right length. I suspect the jacket is an inch or two too shorter than optimum. To perfectionists, these small margins make a significant difference. Overall though, not bad.

You could have kept the red tie, and change the shirt. White gives good contrast against the grey, red would look better with the white contrast wise, and the pocket square - a light blue pattern may have worked better. Nothing wrong with red ties, I suspect they would be a bullfighter's favourite choice of tie! I personally dont find red ties as versatile as other colors, but they work with a little creativity.

EBugatti · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
Sorry if it was overly rude. I don't think I meant it as an invitation to discuss as much as I feel that this thread has unfortunately become mired in a cesspool of bad dressing which is reinforced by both incredible, myopic feelings of self perfection and bizarre sycophants reinforcing the idea that some of these modes of dressing are somehow pleasing. Rather than inviting discussion I mean it to invite even a small bit of self examination. I guess I don't know how to do that other than by making rather acerbic comments. Neither I nor anybody else can go through each fault and try to explain why, especially when the current posters are so damn self assured. I don't know what happened here, but I know that there is a certain change in the style of dress (not that it was ever consistently great) that shows a lack of fundamental knowledge. It often works well when somebody who understands the fundamentals of color, shape, proportion etc messes around with them, but when people just run around in terribly ill-fitting clothing and claim that it is some sort of personal sprezzatura (spazzatura is more like it) then the community owes them some sort of negative reaction. Just my .02, but I will try to be nicer in this age of sensitivity.

The situation is the following: after posting fits for years, the "old guard" has essentially stopped posting fits. They can blame the newcomers, etc., but the reality is, they have stopped posting. Hence, there is no critical mass of the types of dressers Matt would like to see. Nature abhors a vacuum. In the place of the "old guard", new "champions" have emerged. They are not to Matt's liking. But until several old guard members decide to come back in force and show a competing look, newcomers have no comparisons, and embrace the looks of the new "champions". Just one old guard member, though, is not enough--Manton saw what happened with that on his conservative business dress thread. There must be critical mass, or like NOBD points out, this is just a broken record of a complaint...

itsstillmatt · Sep 20, 2011

EBugatti said:
The situation is the following: after posting fits for years, the "old guard" has essentially stopped posting fits. They can blame the newcomers, etc., but the reality is, they have stopped posting. Hence, there is no critical mass of the types of dressers Matt would like to see. Nature abhors a vacuum. In the place of the "old guard", new "champions" have emerged. They are not to Matt's liking. But until several old guard members decide to come back in force and show a competing look, newcomers have no comparisons, and embrace the looks of the new "champions". Just one old guard member, though, is not enough--Manton saw what happened with that on his conservative business dress thread. There must be critical mass, or like NOBD points out, this is just a broken record of a complaint...

Not really. There is a difference between posting things I don't like, which always happened, and a group of people who obviously lack any sense of understanding of basic fundamentals of dressing but have no lack of self importance or pig headed unwillingness to learn from faults others put up. There have always been plenty of dressers, even among the "old guard," whose style I found lacking, but now it isn't really about style, but about complete lack of knowledge. It certainly isn't universal, for example Victor certainly has an understanding of proportion, even if I find his style to be a bit coarse, but there are just so many posters now who seem to have no clue about whether their clothes even come close to fitting their bodies, or combining colors and patterns, that it can be difficult to stomach. It isn't a question of old good new bad, it is a question of having some sort of background from which to build. It isn't a question of there being rules or not, but of there being knowledge or not.

acecow · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
Not really. There is a difference between posting things I don't like, which always happened, and a group of people who obviously lack any sense of understanding of basic fundamentals of dressing but have no lack of self importance or pig headed unwillingness to learn from faults others put up. There have always been plenty of dressers, even among the "old guard," whose style I found lacking, but now it isn't really about style, but about complete lack of knowledge. It certainly isn't universal, for example Victor certainly has an understanding of proportion, even if I find his style to be a bit coarse, but there are just so many posters now who seem to have no clue about whether their clothes even come close to fitting their bodies, or combining colors and patterns, that it can be difficult to stomach. It isn't a question of old good new bad, it is a question of having some sort of background from which to build. It isn't a question of there being rules or not, but of there being knowledge or not.

Why don't you actually start criticizing fits here then? I would love to see some criticism beyond the obvious and boring "I would go with a different tie" comments.

patrickBOOTH · Sep 20, 2011

I think there needs to be some more straight critique and less acceptance of "oh well it is just their style." People are constantly terrified of being labeled as too harsh, or trying to change people's natural style. I think Mafoofan said it best a while back and while I don't have the original quote it was something to the effect of "some people just need to be told." He is correct and that is what I enjoyed about the spirit of the conservative business dress thread and having a consistent voice across many posters.

Achilles_ · Sep 20, 2011

EBugatti said:
Manton saw what happened with that on his conservative business dress thread. There must be critical mass, or like NOBD points out, this is just a broken record of a complaint...

Wait, what happened to Mantons thread? I liked looking in it

teddieriley · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
Not really. There is a difference between posting things I don't like, which always happened, and a group of people who obviously lack any sense of understanding of basic fundamentals of dressing but have no lack of self importance or pig headed unwillingness to learn from faults others put up. There have always been plenty of dressers, even among the "old guard," whose style I found lacking, but now it isn't really about style, but about complete lack of knowledge. It certainly isn't universal, for example Victor certainly has an understanding of proportion, even if I find his style to be a bit coarse, but there are just so many posters now who seem to have no clue about whether their clothes even come close to fitting their bodies, or combining colors and patterns, that it can be difficult to stomach. It isn't a question of old good new bad, it is a question of having some sort of background from which to build. It isn't a question of there being rules or not, but of there being knowledge or not.

Would you be willing to identify/list those WAYWN posters who you think demonstrate the fundamental knowledge of fit, proportions, pattern mixing, etc? Perhaps in that way, we can have less of the blind following the blind. I'm sure it will result in some people being butt hurt that they don't make the list, but whatever. I think it may at least be helpful for people to know that when certain posters gives advice, it should carry more weight.

acecow said:
Why don't you actually start criticizing fits here then? I would love to see some criticism beyond the obvious and boring "I would go with a different tie" comments.

He's tried that, but it's gets terribly exhausting, and I think Matt has said as such.

Newcomer · Sep 20, 2011

EBugatti said:
The situation is the following: after posting fits for years, the "old guard" has essentially stopped posting fits. They can blame the newcomers, etc., but the reality is, they have stopped posting. Hence, there is no critical mass of the types of dressers Matt would like to see. Nature abhors a vacuum. In the place of the "old guard", new "champions" have emerged. They are not to Matt's liking. But until several old guard members decide to come back in force and show a competing look, newcomers have no comparisons, and embrace the looks of the new "champions". Just one old guard member, though, is not enough--Manton saw what happened with that on his conservative business dress thread. There must be critical mass, or like NOBD points out, this is just a broken record of a complaint...

Days like these that I really wish I hadn't chosen this pseudonym...

But with that said, I certainly agree with this to a certain extent. There always has to be a group of the "best dressed" posters, even if they are not to the caliber of the "old guard." I do think that it would be great if some of the old-timers returned. I think that, in general, the forum is much younger now, or at least is filled with much less knowledgeable people. The "old guard" came to SF already a very knowledgeable group. Newer posters, such as myself, have learned a vast amount of information through reading this site, but my sartorial journey started AT styleforum. On the other hand, posters like Vox knew more about all things sartorial before he came to SF than I have after 3 years of reading this site everyday. I am also only 23 years old, so I have a whole lot of growing to do. I think that eventually Styleforum will once again have a group of posters talking about bespoke projects, etc. But I think that for the vast majority of posters, bespoke is still on the horizon.

luftvier · Sep 20, 2011

Anyone catch me on the People's Court yesterday?

BB
CT
BB
Talbott
Florsheim

itsstillmatt · Sep 20, 2011

Newcomer said:
Days like these that I really wish I hadn't chosen this pseudonym...

But with that said, I certainly agree with this to a certain extent. There always has to be a group of the "best dressed" posters, even if they are not to the caliber of the "old guard." I do think that it would be great if some of the old-timers returned. I think that, in general, the forum is much younger now, or at least is filled with much less knowledgeable people. The "old guard" came to SF already a very knowledgeable group. Newer posters, such as myself, have learned a vast amount of information through reading this site, but my sartorial journey started AT styleforum. On the other hand, posters like Vox knew more about all things sartorial before he came to SF than I have after 3 years of reading this site everyday. I am also only 23 years old, so I have a whole lot of growing to do. I think that eventually Styleforum will once again have a group of posters talking about bespoke projects, etc. But I think that for the vast majority of posters, bespoke is still on the horizon.

There is nothing wrong with being new or lacking knowledge. It's great. The problem is when people don't realize that and become angry and defensive.

TeddieRiley - I will

patrickBOOTH · Sep 20, 2011

luftvier said:
Anyone catch me on the People's Court yesterday?
BB
CT
BB
Talbott
Florsheim

Love the tie.

patrickBOOTH · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
There is nothing wrong with being new or lacking knowledge. It's great. The problem is when people don't realize that and become angry and defensive.

TeddieRiley - I will

Bingo. And angry and defensive people generally get that way because deep down they know it is true. Applies to just about all in life.

Achilles_ · Sep 20, 2011

luftvier said:
Anyone catch me on the People's Court yesterday?

BB
CT
BB
Talbott
Florsheim

Collar looks a little too long to me.

mktitsworth · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
There is nothing wrong with being new or lacking knowledge. It's great. The problem is when people don't realize that and become angry and defensive.

This is entirely why I refuse to provide critique.

MrDaniels · Sep 20, 2011

iammatt said:
Not really. There is a difference between posting things I don't like, which always happened, and a group of people who obviously lack any sense of understanding of basic fundamentals of dressing but have no lack of self importance or pig headed unwillingness to learn from faults others put up. There have always been plenty of dressers, even among the "old guard," whose style I found lacking, but now it isn't really about style, but about complete lack of knowledge. It certainly isn't universal, for example Victor certainly has an understanding of proportion, even if I find his style to be a bit coarse, but there are just so many posters now who seem to have no clue about whether their clothes even come close to fitting their bodies, or combining colors and patterns, that it can be difficult to stomach. It isn't a question of old good new bad, it is a question of having some sort of background from which to build. It isn't a question of there being rules or not, but of there being knowledge or not.

iammatt said:
There is nothing wrong with being new or lacking knowledge. It's great. The problem is when people don't realize that and become angry and defensive.

Has it occurred to you to just focus on the technical points on why an outfit is not working as opposed to using rude, crude and abusive language to get your point across? Perhaps that is why people get "angry and defensive. "

HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III

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