HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III



SpooPoker said:

Let the games begin.

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OK, it's official...Fall is here.

That tie knot looks like it is the cousin of a Half-Windsor today....must be one thick-ass tie.



DerekS said:

99% sure i can name that maker.

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Looks like RLPL to me.



MrDaniels said:

I think we all have a lot more invested in 200+ years of American history than four years of what was essentially a failed succession attempt.

I am sure the amount of Americans who find the Stars and Stripes offensive is miniscule vs. the amount of Americans who find the Rebel flag offensive.

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OK, fair enough, and I agree - but let's be clear that what we're talking about is PERCEPTION of the Confederate flag, and the other types of people that showcase it, not the inherent moral value of the Confederacy.



MrDaniels said:

Hey, didn't you once compliment my Member's Only jacket and parachute pants in homeroom once?

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I just shuddered thinking about what it would look like if I could have posted WAYWRN pics in high school.



Holdfast said:

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This is some pro level **** here. The shape of both the collar and the tie give this a wonderful symmetry, and then you have these gorgeously bold patterns and colors that have nothing whatever to do with one another. Brass balls and a keen eye. Truly the work of a master. Mazel tov, sir.



unbelragazzo said:

OK, fair enough, and I agree - but let's be clear that what we're talking about is PERCEPTION of the Confederate flag, and the other types of people that showcase it, not the inherent moral value of the Confederacy.

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I can agree that the issues that surrounded the Civil War are far removed enough from present-day society that some of the morality can be muddled. But all that really matters is how it is perceived today; and I personally would not want to be associated with the overwhelming majority of people who continue to use it as a symbol, and I would hate for the international community to look at our country as being welcoming to those who still hold those views.



upr_crust said:

The beginning of a new week, and of a new cycle of suits (much to the joy of my dry cleaner).

My shoe and sock selection are, I believe, quite Spoo-esque - purple socks and C & J Edgwares

Suit, shirt, and PS - BB
Tie - Charvet
Cufflinks - Toledano work (i.e. damascened iron) cufflinks from the gift shop of the Palace Hotel, Madrid
Shoes - C & J, as noted above

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

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This is absolutely steezy. The glasses accentuate everything else to make this simply classic, and the ring adds just the touch.



MrDaniels said:

I can agree that the issues that surrounded the Civil War are far removed enough from present-day society that some of the morality can be muddled. But all that really matters is how it is perceived today; and I personally would not want to be associated with the overwhelming majority of people who continue to use it as a symbol, and I would have for the international community to look at our country as being welcoming to those who still hold those views.

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I grew up in the South too and of course have seen some of the same people you have seen showing the flag as a symbol of their hatred for others who are different. We can all agree we don't want to support that. But I would hope you have also noticed that the South has a distinct heritage and regional pride that no other area of the country has. And I know people who consider the flag a symbol of that heritage, their pride in it, and also a remembrance of the humbling defeat in the Civil War, and the devastation that it wrought. I think that matters too, not just how others perceive it. If someone wants to put up a flag in their dorm room, or even a bumper sticker on their car, with that in mind, and carry themselves as a gentleman who welcomes others of all color and creed, he will get nor argument from me. Nor would I assume that he felt otherwise based on his display of the flag. But said gentleman would have to understand that others may assume otherwise, and that is a risk he has to take. (full disclosure: I do not own, nor have I ever owned, anything with the Confederate flag on it)



MrDaniels said:

I can agree that the issues that surrounded the Civil War are far removed enough from present-day society that some of the morality can be muddled. But all that really matters is how it is perceived today; and I personally would not want to be associated with the overwhelming majority of people who continue to use it as a symbol, and I would hate for the international community to look at our country as being welcoming to those who still hold those views.

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This.


One's personal motivations for displaying the Confederate flag may have nothing to do with race. Yet it is undeniably true that the flag does have racial significance. That's not just perception, that's reality. To display it is to implicitly condone everything the flag stood for, not just the parts you like. You're telegraphing the world a message and the world isn't ever going to give you a chance to tell your nuanced opinion about it.

Another example would be the keffiyeh. It's never just a fashion item but will always be read by many people you encounter as a symbol of Palestinian solidarity.



Sazerac said:

This.


One's personal motivations for displaying the Confederate flag may have nothing to do with race. Yet it is undeniably true that the flag does have racial significance. That's not just perception, that's reality. To display it is to implicitly condone everything the flag stood for, not just the parts you like. You're telegraphing the world a message and the world isn't ever going to give you a chance to tell your nuanced opinion about it.

Another example would be the keffiyeh. It's never just a fashion item but will always be read by many people you encounter as a symbol of Palestinian solidarity.

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I think you're underestimating the degree to which WITHIN THE SOUTH, the flag is seen as symbol of Southern pride, and not racism. (e.g. the OP had it in his picture, I assume not to show us all how racist he is, but that he is a Southerner...his handle is southernstyle after all.) Outside of the South, people see it and just think slave-owning racists. Within the South, there is often at least a hint of that, but it stands for much more than that IMHO.



unbelragazzo said:

I think you're underestimating the degree to which WITHIN THE SOUTH, the flag is seen as symbol of Southern pride, and not racism. (e.g. the OP had it in his picture, I assume not to show us all how racist he is, but that he is a Southerner...his handle is southernstyle after all.) Outside of the South, people see it and just think slave-owning racists. Within the South, there is often at least a hint of that, but it stands for much more than that IMHO.

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Yeah, hate to break it to you but plenty of people in The South associate it with racism too.



unbelragazzo said:

I think you're underestimating the degree to which WITHIN THE SOUTH, the flag is seen as symbol of Southern pride, and not racism. (e.g. the OP had it in his picture, I assume not to show us all how racist he is, but that he is a Southerner...his handle is southernstyle after all.) Outside of the South, people see it and just think slave-owning racists. Within the South, there is often at least a hint of that, but it stands for much more than that IMHO.

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There is definitely some truth to this. The "rebel flag" can be seen all over the south. However, even more surprising is that no one here, from a historical standpoint, understands what this flag means. In reality this flag was never even used by the Confederacy as a national flag or even a battle flag. The "rebel flag" you see today is based off the battle flag but officially only stands for Southern pride:

A rectangular variant of the battle flag used by some Confederate Army Units, now called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag", despite its never having historically represented the CSA as a nation, has become a widely recognized symbol of the South. It is also called the "rebel", or "Dixie" flag, and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the First National Flag, which used an entirely different design).[20] The self-declared Confederate enclave of Town Line, New York, lacking a genuine Confederate flag, flew a version of this flag prior to its 1946 vote to rejoin the Union.

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Granted this does not remove the stigma associated with the flag, but it's ironic that the flag causes so much controversy and sparks debate about ignorance when in fact being offended by this particular flag is a sign of ignorance.



JMRouse said:

Yeah, hate to break it to you but plenty of people in The South associate it with racism too.

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But definitely not all. And I think it varies even within The South. Idk if you're from Texas, but many ppl would not consider Texas part of The South...



unbelragazzo said:

But definitely not all. And I think it varies even within The South. Idk if you're from Texas, but many ppl would not consider Texas part of The South...

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You are right. We don't.



bourbonbasted said:

Granted this does not remove the stigma associated with the flag, but it's ironic that the flag causes so much controversy and sparks debate about ignorance when in fact being offended by this particular flag is a sign of ignorance.

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Yep. And I know plenty of Black people with deep southern roots and pride. None of them would ever display that flag.