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HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III - Page 1644  

post #24646 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

saying "In the context of RTW merchandizing of clothes, this lack of self-awareness leads to an annoying presumption of novelty or unique discovery masking a lack of talent in both concept and execution" is just ignorant, nobody pretends that fashion isn't cyclical, nobody lacks self-awareness to presume absolute novelty/uniqueness.
.

Except for Bjork.
post #24647 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Neither subforum is perfect, that's for sure. There's a lot of ugliness and co-optation of poor taste in both. That said, MC has a lot to learn from the collective knowledge of SW&D when it comes to casual dress, colors and fit, but most refuse to accept it. And SW&D has a lot to learn from the collective knowledge of MC when it comes to less casual dress, particularly fit and fabrics, but most refuse to accept it. I wish neither camp was so quick at shooting down advice from the other side, along with mocking the messengers. I do think having bridge posters like Parker, MoK, etc... should continue to open minds.

I used to think that but I've changed my mind.
post #24648 of 78722
Seems like this thread has reached a new low, judging on past conversation by certain persons.
post #24649 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

I never look at that thread. Maybe I should start. Who are the allstars there I should pay attention to?

The allstars are the ones who have a lot of e-buddies, not necessarily the best dressed - just like is the case everywhere (e.g. here). Take a look and make up your own opinion, there are lots of very different styles from Americana to gothninja.
post #24650 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

I used to think that but I've changed my mind.

How so?
post #24651 of 78722

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post


I never look at that thread. Maybe I should start. Who are the allstars there I should pay attention to?
let it be known I have zero interest in attempting any SWD fits, but now I am curious to see them.


This hasn't been updated in far too long though I just bumped it but it may be a good place to start:

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/243095/official-best-of-waywt-favorite-fits/0_40

post #24652 of 78722
F. Corbera :- I don't think you need to even explain why SWD looks wouldn't be swooned over in MC (though, as evidenced by my x-post of UC's fit, Parker's suits, etc. the opposite is not necessarily true). Different ideals, different ideas of what works, what should be pursued, etc I mean we both know this list quite well it seems. I don't agree either that this place is devoid of style, full of idiots, and uncreative, or what have you. Just disparate ideas that seem at first irreconcilable until we look further ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

Neither subforum is perfect, that's for sure. There's a lot of ugliness and co-optation of poor taste in both. That said, MC has a lot to learn from the collective knowledge of SW&D when it comes to casual dress, colors and fit, but most refuse to accept it. And SW&D has a lot to learn from the collective knowledge of MC when it comes to less casual dress, particularly fit and fabrics, but most refuse to accept it. I wish neither camp was so quick at shooting down advice from the other side, along with mocking the messengers. I do think having bridge posters like Parker, MoK, etc... should continue to open minds.

...and we see that it's rather insularity of the tribes that leads to the most critical exchanges. Indeed, to that list I would add you, gdl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianBoyz View Post

Seems like this thread has reached a new low, judging on past conversation by certain persons.

kya hua ??
post #24653 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

The allstars are the ones who have a lot of e-buddies, not necessarily the best dressed - just like is the case everywhere (e.g. here). Take a look and make up your own opinion, there are lots of very different styles from Americana to gothninja.

I played roulette and just clicked a random page and wound up with this.

Ill bow out of this discussion now.
post #24654 of 78722
Berlin Report
post #24655 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

This doesn't make sense, you are positing that what you call contemporary style is standing outside the social and doesn't adapt to life events.
1) Most/all designers play with the canon of men's dress, basically questioning it's a priori, playfully remixing them or simply transgressing them. There is no outside, those hundred years of practice are still there but they were never static and never will be.
2) MCers by and large apply a fantasy image of the standards of days past to today's social landscape, it is wish fulfillment not a respect for their environment that drives them. Their environment wears oversized polos and maybe Gucci loafers as dress shoes. Attempting to freeze culture is as easy as attempting to freeze time.

I agree with point 1 but point 2, at least the bolded part, is what grounds MC. For better or worse (and it is often worse), there are certain continuities that will always be classic. On the casual side, SVB is a good example of someone who chooses pieces that, while remaining interesting and contemporary, give homage to 20th century archetypes that will likely stay that way for another 100 years.

Boring? A little. Does it push boundaries? Aside from distancing from the sweats & flip-flop crowd, not at all. And I think therein lies the mindset of many in MC: how to incorporate time-honored "standards" in daily dress.

The worst will admittedly look foppish, costumey, and unfortunately do not receive the derision they deserve. The best look crisp, timeless, while remaining current with present-day acceptable men's dress.
post #24656 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post

I played roulette and just clicked a random page and wound up with this.
Ill bow out of this discussion now.

You and me both; my head hurts as it usually does whenever I attempt to read something other than picture books...
post #24657 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

How so?

People who are trying to look good in coat and tie, but who are uneven in succeeding looking great, seem unlikely to get much benefit by dividing their time, resources, and capacity for effective execution of coherent ideas in yet another sphere of dress.

For example, is there a single person who is primarily active in SW&D who looks great in coat and tie? It's hard enough getting guys in MC to do it well.

We all love Parker as a poster child, but still.
post #24658 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

I agree with point 1 but point 2, at least the bolded part, is what grounds MC. For better or worse (and it is often worse), there are certain continuities that will always be classic. On the casual side, SVB is a good example of someone who chooses pieces that, while remaining interesting and contemporary, give homage to 20th century archetypes that will likely stay that way for another 100 years.
Boring? A little. Does it push boundaries? Aside from distancing from the sweats & flip-flop crowd, not at all. And I think therein lies the mindset of many in MC: how to incorporate time-honored "standards" in daily dress.
The worst will admittedly look foppish, costumey, and unfortunately do not receive the derision they deserve. The best look crisp, timeless, while remaining current with present-day acceptable men's dress.

Costume and wish fulfillment doesn't bother me when it is done well...

Many articles of clothing SVB wears come from the emerging youth culture of the 50s-60s and forward those garments were very often re-purposed from marginal and/or blue collar culture (i.e. flannel shirts, jeans or even the military jackets you enjoy wearing). While MC tends to give a voice to the mainstream tradition of the dominant classes of the pre WWII period, what happened afterwards and was made especially acute in the 60s and 70s was the emergence of (youth oriented) streetstyle and it's enormous influence on ready to wear (which displaced bespoke and haute couture). That "tradition" is now the dominant style just like traditional bourgeois values were overtaken by countercultural values, the later being, supreme irony, way more in synch with the capitalist system. The tradition you're speaking of lays in shamble and has had to transform heavily, hence brands like Brunello Cucinelli who bridge the gap quite successfully.
post #24659 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

This doesn't make sense, you are positing that what you call contemporary style is standing outside the social and doesn't adapt to life events.
1) Most/all designers play with the canon of men's dress, basically questioning it's a priori, playfully remixing them or simply transgressing them. There is no outside, those hundred years of practice are still there but they were never static and never will be.

I'm surprised that an elitist like you gives menswear designers so much credit when most of them are hacks who produce more minor disaster than minor beauty. Unless, of course, you deem them a special category exempt from the force of mediocrity affecting nearly all fields of contemporary artistic presumption.

A RTW menswear designer today is no more likely to produce something great than an architect today will produce.

In contrast, the backbone of mens classic dress as it lives and breathes today in the form of the bespoke tailoring tradition...the canon, as you put it...still is great. I plan to enjoy it as long as I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

2) MCers by and large apply a fantasy image of the standards of days past to today's social landscape, it is wish fulfillment not a respect for their environment that drives them. Their environment wears oversized polos and maybe Gucci loafers as dress shoes. Attempting to freeze culture is as easy as attempting to freeze time.

Well, you could be right. All that I can offer is that there have been seemingly sincere explanations by several people in this discussion that in their actual and personal context, none of the SW&D "looks" would be acceptable. Perhaps they are deranged and should all grab that poncho you were wearing in one of your fit pics.

Please don't make Manton wear Junya.
post #24660 of 78722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

The tradition you're speaking of lays in shamble and has had to transform heavily, hence brands like Brunello Cucinelli who bridge the gap quite successfully.

This made me smile.
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