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Do Balmorals need different lasts than Oxf/Derbys? - Page 2

post #16 of 21
The link doesn't work either (at least not from this site).

I have exported them to photobucket:







That seems to be doing the trick!

P.S. shoefan, did you ever cconsider making shoes in bullfrog? Now is the time, just harvest all those frogs!
post #17 of 21
Here are the photos Shoefan was trying to post: Oops, sorry for the double post. Oh, well...worth repeating.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
Oops, sorry for the double post. Oh, well...worth repeating.

Great minds think alike!
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you for educating me. Its indeed very nice learning about the craftsmanship behind shoes. Do I deduct correctly when saying that a boot like the oxfort boot above is mostly made on another last than a typical jodpur boot too? At least thats what I think would be necessary to jet the typical toebox shape. Or can even this be handled by adding material to the last?
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocteau View Post
Thank you for educating me. Its indeed very nice learning about the craftsmanship behind shoes. Do I deduct correctly when saying that a boot like the oxfort boot above is mostly made on another last than a typical jodpur boot too? At least thats what I think would be necessary to jet the typical toebox shape. Or can even this be handled by adding material to the last?
Toe box shape is almost immaterial. I've made narrow pointed "cockroach-in-a-corner-killers" on a wide round toed last. And I've made very successful jodhpurs, balmorals, and derbies on an oxford last. Pull on boots require a boot last or extensive build-ups on the last to achieve a graceful shape. YAnd yu better know what a good boot last looks like before you begin. Loafers and pumps require a special last or some (maybe a lot) of cutting away of the substance of the last....and you need to know what a pump last looks like before beginning.
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by lithdoc View Post

Balmoral = Oxford Blucher = Derby These are just American vs. British terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoefan View Post

In the USA, for some reason, I've seen shoe companies refer to any oxford as a 'bal oxford' perhaps to distinguish it from other lace-ups styles (i.e. bluchers/derbies), which many Americans would also (incorrectly) call oxfords.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Off topic just a little... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong (and we do have some usages that are different on this side of the pond) but "balmoral" does not equate to "oxford". The two terms are not automatically interchangeable. An oxford is a "closed facing shoe...meaning that the vamp, usually (except saddle shoes), overlays the quarters and the facings. Yes, a balmoral is a a type of oxford...just as an Adelaide is a type of oxford. We don't call all oxfords Adelaides. The balmoral has a "golosh" --the single piece that forms the vamp and quarters and wraps around or closes at the heel. Looking kind of like a pump with a top. Probably neither here nor there but important in the world of shoemaking.


I was also confused and I tried to find out once.
Up until the early 1910s, Americans correctly used the term "bal (balmoral)".
However, "bal oxford (balmoral oxford)" came into use since around the late 1910s in the US and Canada.


About 100 years ago,

 US        UK
 Oxford     = Oxford
 Blucher Oxford = Derby
 Balmoral    = Balmoral

Quote:
Shoe and leather encyclopedia
Published 1911 by Shoe and leather gazette in Saint Louis
http://archive.org/stream/shoeleatherencyc00sain#page/92/mode/2up

BAL, (an abbreviation of the word "Balmoral") - A front lace shoe, of medium height, men's, women's or children's, as distinguished from one that is adjusted to the ankle by buttons, buckles, rubber goring, etc., and from the "Blucher," "Polish," "Oxford," etc.

BLUCHER - A shoe or half boot, originated by Field Marshal Blucher of the Prussian army, in the time of the first Napoleon. It at once became very popular, and has since received occasional favor, being used with high tops as a sporting or hunting boot. Its distinguishing feature is the extension forward of the quarters, to lace across the tongue which may be an extension upward of the vamp.

OXFORD - A low cut shoe, no higher than the instep, lace, button, or goring, made in men's, women's and children's sizes.

POLISH - A ladies' or misses' front lace shoe, of higher cut than a "bal," named from Poland, where it is said to have originated, and pronounced accordingly.
Quote:
Quote:
Rice & Hutchins, New York Company(1915)
http://archive.org/details/catalogue00rice

catalogue00rice_0014.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
catalogue00rice_0032.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0


Since around the late 1910s,

 US        UK
 Bal Oxford   = Oxford
 Blucher Oxford = Derby

Quote:
Bal: A front-laced shoe in which the quarters meet and the vamp is stitched at the sfront of the throat. Bal is short for "Balmoral," the Scottish castle where this style was first introduced.

Blucher: A style where the quarters flap open at the vamp, giving extra room at the throat and instep in fitting. The opposite of the balmoral style, which has a sewn, closed vamp.

Oxford: A low-cut, laced shoe of balmoral or blucher design.
http://allenedmonds.com/aeonline/GlossaryView?catalogId=40000000001&langId=-1&storeId=1
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