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Fluid/dynamic/ongoing B. Nelson Experience - Page 8

post #106 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post
Lucky the soles are done with a lockstitch. lf one or two stitches are cut in the toe area hopefully the sole will hold until next resole.
Probably right but today the thread used in manufacturing situations in particular is dacron and there is no wax in the word that will hold tight on dacron. Factories don't do hand stitched outsoles and they cannot be bothered to clean up the stitching machines...every day...like was done in the old days when hard, hot melt wax was used. Thus, even though it is a lock stitch, the stitches can slip. Of course, the nail will tend to make up for that slippage but if the stitching does come loose, even a little, dirt and moisture can sometimes get in under the sole.
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post #107 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post
Typical SF mob mentality to attack the victim. Happens over and over again. Very puzzling.

+1 Just dont get it !!
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post #108 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post
Lucky the soles are done with a lockstitch.
lf one or two stitches are cut in the toe area hopefully the sole will hold until next resole.


Now THAT is a real problem.


Sounds like a good idea.
Toe plates sound very risky,
that why l don't do it.

Sounds like someone has been taking English lessons!
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post #109 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:37pm
I had a situation with B. Nelson last year that didn't turn out as I'd hoped. I sent some shoes for resoling that came back with the uppers looking very strange. I thought Nick's crew had ruined them, but after consulting with him and a couple other experts, I eventually figured out it was a latent flaw in the leather that just surfaced when the shoes were relasted. Not B. Nelson's fault, and it would have happened if I'd sent the shoes back to the maker for recrafting. I just chalked it up to experience and moved on.

Bottom line, when I got the shoes back looking terrible, my instinct was to post a thread like this one. I'm glad I didn't, because I'd have been bashing a quality craftsman for something that wasn't his fault. Time allowed for things to be resolved as well as possible and saved me from making a fool of myself by publicly posting false accusations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto
Sounds like someone has been taking English lessons!

SoS is probably a sock, and the pidgin he normally types is definitely an act.
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post #110 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
Probably right but today the thread used in manufacturing situations in particular is dacron and there is no wax in the word that will hold tight on dacron. Factories don't do hand stitched outsoles and they cannot be bothered to clean up the stitching machines...every day...like was done in the old days when hard, hot melt wax was used.

Thus, even though it is a lock stitch, the stitches can slip. Of course, the nail will tend to make up for that slippage but if the stitching does come loose, even a little, dirt and moisture can sometimes get in under the sole.

Does not seem like any good solution to the problem of declining linen thread quality,
even dracon has it's problem as you say.
This bothers me.
Handmade is not made to near the same construction as it used to be because thread is the weak link.
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post #111 of 367
3/24/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KObalto View Post
Sounds like someone has been taking English lessons!
lt easy.
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post #112 of 367
3/24/11 at 1:58pm





If I am interpreting the trajectory of the nail correctly - point is pushing outward / slightly downward and forward - I don't see how it could possibly be a nail that was used to apply the toe plate. Edit: That is, unless it was an incredibly long nail that was driven completely through the sole and the welt, into the toe box and then bent forward and pushed through the upper...which would be an egregious error by the craftsman.

I know very little about shoe construction (just enjoy wearing them), but perhaps one possible scenario is that it was an ill-placed tack in the construction of the shoe, that was an undetectible flaw until forced through the toe box by the pressure of applying the toe plate.

If such a thing is possible, I wouldn't consider that to be the fault of the person who applied the toe plate. Like an earlier post recounted in the case with a material flaw in his leather, it would simply be an unfortunate condition that coincidentally manifest itself in the context of the shoe repair.
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post #113 of 367
3/24/11 at 2:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm33 View Post
If I am interpreting the trajectory of the nail correctly - point is pushing outward / slightly downward and forward - I don't see how it could possibly be a nail that was used to apply the toe plate. Edit: That is, unless it was an incredibly long nail that was driven completely through the sole and the welt, into the toe box and then bent forward and pushed through the upper...which would be an egregious error by the craftsman.

I know very little about shoe construction (just enjoy wearing them), but perhaps one possible scenario is that it was an ill-placed tack in the construction of the shoe, that was an undetectible flaw until forced through the toe box by the pressure of applying the toe plate.

If such a thing is possible, I wouldn't consider that to be the fault of the person who applied the toe plate. Like an earlier post recounted in the case with a material flaw in his leather, it would simply be an unfortunate condition that coincidentally manifest itself in the context of the shoe repair.

The nail is defintely not inside my shoe, I looked at that prior to even bringing the shoe in. I felt the internal to be sure that I, somehow, didn't have something in my shoe that I could pushed forward to puncture the leather.

I wanted to pull the tap out when I took the shoe in, but was advised not to rush it and give them time to look at the cause. I think this would have resolved, "is it B. Nelson's fault, C&J's fault," or if there is any fault at all.
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post #114 of 367
3/24/11 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post

SoS is probably a sock, and the pidgin he normally types is definitely an act.

Next you will try to tell me Saphir isn't even his daddy.
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post #115 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by viator View Post
I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that the workmanship on OP's shoes was poor and should be rectified. The issue, as I see it, is that OP immediately started a thread naming names, complaining, and relating his "terrible" experience. I really feel that before you go around badmouthing a peron or business and damage their reputation, the responsible thing to do is attempt to resolve the situation privately with the business or person in question. If you don't get a good resolution, by all means, post your experience. That is useful and important information. If there is a good resolution, but you feel that others should be warned about potential mishaps, then that's fine to post as well. What I don't like is posting half a story - not giving Nick a chance to make it right before lighting the fuse on a 5+ page thread.

how would you feel if you went somewhere to have the shoe get taps put on and it got a hole in the toe of the upper leather of the shoe?! you'd feel you had a terrible experience. Now whether this should be posted or not is a different matter - since B. Nelson's shoe repairs are so well regarded on the forum, mistakes can be highlighted / mentioned as well.

Nick should have said sorry and I'll do whatever needs to be done to fix it - instead, he's pointed to Martha stewart and other acclaim instead of saying - forum, settle down, i'm looking into this and will make the man right.
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post #116 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onix View Post
So OP had two options:

1. Posting his on-going experience, including initial bad results on SF (this is what OP chose)
2. Working the whole thing out before posting his experience on SF

What's the advantage/disadvantage to both parties?

- If the company is good, neither option is bad for them. Option 1 is fine because the public can see how responsive/responsible the company is. Option 2 is of course also fine.
- If the company is bad, option 1 will give them some pressure to do the right things, hence this is not in favor of the company. However, it is good for OP.

In conclusion, option 1 is best for OP in all scenarios, hence he chose it. Option 1 is not always good for the company, hence they don't like it.

Good analysis.
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post #117 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post
Typical SF mob mentality to attack the victim. Happens over and over again. Very puzzling.

so true!
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post #118 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyBob View Post
What is wrong with posting this thread here? The OP has been very considerate in what he has said. I have several pairs of shoes that I was considering sending to B. Nelson and now I am questioning if I should. My questioning has nothing to do with the mistakes that were made. As the OP has said, "mistakes happen." My questioning has everything to do with Nick's response.

Nick had a fantastic opportunity to say, "we screwed up, we will fix it and make it right!" Had he done that, without bickering back and forth, I would have had a lot more respect for him and I wouldn't hesitate to send him my shoes. Had he taken that approach, he would be singing the praises of the OP for providing the opportunity, in a public place to show, not just the quality of his work, but that he backs his work and makes things right.

I too am in a service industry and we also make mistakes. As long as everything goes perfect, everyone is happy. It isn't until a mistake is made that you find the true character of an individual. When our employees make a mistake, we don't knock them down for having made the mistake, unless they keep making the same mistake over and over. We evaluate them on how they fix it. Do they acknowledge it? Do they make it right? That is what is important.

Quit making excuses Nick. Fix the problem, admit a mistake was made and you will have more customers as a result. Keep bitching and complaining about the OP and you will lose customers.

absolutely correct. nick - do you agree?
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post #119 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:07pm
It is beyond me why there is such widespread condemnation of the OPs posts. He has attempted to be fair, reporting only the facts and did not place blame on any individual. He only sought to bring this to everyone's attention, and promised (and thusly delivered) timely and factual updates as the ongoing situation unravelled.

On the otherhand, Nick's posts truly leave much to be desired, and a worrying attitude in my mind. If there is something that justifies his continual stating that OP is bein unfair and "he knows it" then he needs to state what that is. Otherwise, nick is simply coming off as someone redirecting blame. The current attitude of "I advised you not to, so it's your fault" simply is not congruent with the attitude expected from someone in the business of high end shoe service.

I, the OP, and many others here do not doubt the level of work B Nelson as a company, or Nick as an individual is capable of. However, the attitude currently observed is very disappointing. It doesn't matter what good publicity one gets on the quality of work if the service and attitude behind it is inexcusable. And unfortunately, that is the direction Nick is currently taking with his replies.
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post #120 of 367
3/24/11 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgetorix View Post
I had a situation with B. Nelson last year that didn't turn out as I'd hoped. I sent some shoes for resoling that came back with the uppers looking very strange. I thought Nick's crew had ruined them, but after consulting with him and a couple other experts, I eventually figured out it was a latent flaw in the leather that just surfaced when the shoes were relasted. Not B. Nelson's fault, and it would have happened if I'd sent the shoes back to the maker for recrafting. I just chalked it up to experience and moved on.

Bottom line, when I got the shoes back looking terrible, my instinct was to post a thread like this one. I'm glad I didn't, because I'd have been bashing a quality craftsman for something that wasn't his fault. Time allowed for things to be resolved as well as possible and saved me from making a fool of myself by publicly posting false accusations.




SoS is probably a sock, and the pidgin he normally types is definitely an act.

Can you post photos of your shoes so we can see? Who else did you consult as a shoe expert? What sort of latent flaw was there?

SoS - Vox's sock I reckon.
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