or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel › What are you drinking right now?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What are you drinking right now? - Page 807

post #12091 of 13984
It's a shame spirits stop aging when bottled.
post #12092 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

It's a shame spirits stop aging when bottled.

It's honestly amazing how many people don't understand this.

"Hey guys I found this old bottle of whiskey in my grandad's stuff, it must be worth tons rite????" Uh.....no.
post #12093 of 13984
They do change over time in the bottle. But most "dusties" don't change for the better.
post #12094 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilkinson View Post

They do change over time in the bottle. But most "dusties" don't change for the better.

Maybe if open and oxidizing, but generally, no, it doesn't. It's not wine, the much higher alcohol content keeps it stable. I've tried booze that belong to my grandparents, got packed away when my grandfather died and my grandmother moved to a retirement home, and was rediscovered a few decades later. Sometimes the maker changes the recipe or dilutes the spirit more than they used to, but the aging doesn't really affect things.

That said, some old bottles are indeed quite valuable- pre prohibition bourbon and rye, for example. Styles and yeast strains changed with the massive disruption in the industry, and collectors will pay a pretty penny for examples that made it through.

Oh, and as a further point to show that it doesn't change once in a bottle, some of the cognac makers keep libraries of their brandies, going back centuries, so they can ensure the product stays consistent. And the master blender gets to sniff (not taste) them on a somewhat regular basis, which would probably add a cool element to an already pretty cool job.
post #12095 of 13984
From what I read they begin storing brandies in glass after approx. 60 years in oak, additional aging begins to overwhelm important qualities of the spirit.
post #12096 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

It's a shame spirits stop aging when bottled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

It's honestly amazing how many people don't understand this.

"Hey guys I found this old bottle of whiskey in my grandad's stuff, it must be worth tons rite????" Uh.....no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

Maybe if open and oxidizing, but generally, no, it doesn't. It's not wine, the much higher alcohol content keeps it stable. I've tried booze that belong to my grandparents, got packed away when my grandfather died and my grandmother moved to a retirement home, and was rediscovered a few decades later. Sometimes the maker changes the recipe or dilutes the spirit more than they used to, but the aging doesn't really affect things.

That said, some old bottles are indeed quite valuable- pre prohibition bourbon and rye, for example. Styles and yeast strains changed with the massive disruption in the industry, and collectors will pay a pretty penny for examples that made it through.

Oh, and as a further point to show that it doesn't change once in a bottle, some of the cognac makers keep libraries of their brandies, going back centuries, so they can ensure the product stays consistent. And the master blender gets to sniff (not taste) them on a somewhat regular basis, which would probably add a cool element to an already pretty cool job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba View Post

From what I read they begin storing brandies in glass after approx. 60 years in oak, additional aging begins to overwhelm important qualities of the spirit.

http://www.maltmaniacs.net/e-pistle-200902-do-you-believe-in-bottle-maturation/

Serge Valentin, the author of that article, is probably one of the most experienced whisky tasters in the world.
post #12097 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by ama View Post




http://www.maltmaniacs.net/e-pistle-200902-do-you-believe-in-bottle-maturation/

Serge Valentin, the author of that article, is probably one of the most experienced whisky tasters in the world.

With wine chemical changes can be quantified during the bottle aging process. Notice this article ends with the statement, "But okay, all this is no straight-from-the-lab scientific evidence and that’s why we’re still calling this issue ‘a belief’ rather than a proven fact." I'm sure that spirits are not 100% dead but I've yet to be given any convincing evidence, either through chemical analysis or actual personal tasting experience, to convince me bottle aging is a material factor in improving the taste of spirits once bottled. It is the interaction of the spirit with the organic compounds of the barrels that impart the major changes in an aged spirit vs. a raw spirit and this can be chemically analyzed. Heck, we all know Scotch aged in a Sauternes cask is going to taste different than the same distillate aged in a rum cask.
post #12098 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

With wine chemical changes can be quantified during the bottle aging process. Notice this article ends with the statement, "But okay, all this is no straight-from-the-lab scientific evidence and that’s why we’re still calling this issue ‘a belief’ rather than a proven fact." I'm sure that spirits are not 100% dead but I've yet to be given any convincing evidence, either through chemical analysis or actual personal tasting experience, to convince me bottle aging is a material factor in improving the taste of spirits once bottled. It is the interaction of the spirit with the organic compounds of the barrels that impart the major changes in an aged spirit vs. a raw spirit and this can be chemically analyzed. Heck, we all know Scotch aged in a Sauternes cask is going to taste different than the same distillate aged in a rum cask.

I don't disagree with your points, nor do I claim to be an expert in this field. Two of the people referenced in the article, however, are undeniably experts:
Quote:
(5) – A simple quote of The Great Michael Jackson: “It is often argued that change happens only in the cask, but that is not true.” (in ‘message in a bottle’, 1996)
(6) – Some bottlers, and not the less famous of them, do insist on bottle ageing, such as the famous Silvano Samaroli who even writes about that on some of his labels.
(7) – The very same Silvano Samaroli explained to us how, for instance a very young Ardbeg and a very young Glen Garioch used to be harsh and pungent when he bottled them thirty years ago, whilst they became magnificently mellow and complex after all these years in glass. He would know, wouldn’t he?

I have had the privilege of tasting many "dusties," old bottles and even some of the Samarolis referenced in the article. To my palate many of them tasted like mellowed and morphed versions of newer bottlings, not oxidized or spoiled versions. Some of them had turned to crap too as Kwik mentioned. I don't think its as obvious, or cut and dry as wine aging, but to my mind there is clearly some additional changes that happen to spirits after bottling.
post #12099 of 13984
If it does age in glass I would not expect that it is significant. Which is the reason, why I mentioned above that it is moved from oak to glass. One would expect that the old brandies would still experience some form of aging (oxidation) in glass, but they would not be taking on the qualities of their container.

Also, fwiw, many of them are also sealed with wax.

Ama, you're likely more experienced then me with this, however the old bottles I've had the pleasure of trying have all seemed pretty similar to the new ones. I would expect circumstance has something to do with it. A bottle in direct sunlight for a number of years is probably going to be ruined, or one that was opened.
Edited by SkinnyGoomba - 5/24/13 at 2:38pm
post #12100 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba View Post

If it does age in glass I would not expect that it is significant. Which is the reason, why I mentioned above that it is moved from oak to glass. One would expect that the old brandies would still experience some form of aging (oxidation) in glass, but they would not be taking on the qualities of their container.

Also, fwiw, many of them are also sealed with wax.

Well, there are many reasons to move a spirit or wine or anything you are aging in wood to a more inert container. Usually the reason is to stop the the flavor of the wood from becoming more assertive and overtaking the more mellow characteristics of the spirit. This is done all the time with wine and older bourbons especially.

The kind of aging referenced primarily in the article I linked was a mellowing/morphing, like wine experiences, not the acquisition of different flavors.
post #12101 of 13984
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I did mentioned that above in the post you quoted previously....so I think we're all on the same page.
post #12102 of 13984
I briefly had this conversation with someone the other day. They were very emphatic that chartreuse does age in the bottle.
post #12103 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

I briefly had this conversation with someone the other day. They were very emphatic that chartreuse does age in the bottle.

I am not sure Chartreuse can be compared to a whisky, rum, cognac, etc. I can see stuff with heavy herbals and/or volatile organics in them changing, and at some point, not for the better.
post #12104 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I am not sure Chartreuse can be compared to a whisky, rum, cognac, etc. I can see stuff with heavy herbals and/or volatile organics in them changing, and at some point, not for the better.


Agreed. Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.
post #12105 of 13984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

Agreed. Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.

FUCKING MIX THROWER!

All this talk made me get one of my new round ice balls out of the freezer and I made a nice Old Fashioned with Bittercube bitters and Bulliet Bourbon.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel › What are you drinking right now?