or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Archives › Buying and Selling (Archive) › FS: Men's Clothing (Archive) › Santoni for Dunhill. UK size 8. Never worn/boxfresh
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Santoni for Dunhill. UK size 8. Never worn/boxfresh - Page 3

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post
reasons why santoni shoes are not more popular on SF and elsewhere:

1. santoni abandoned the american shoe market and are not in major retailers in the US.

They are sold at Nordstroms though.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpooPoker View Post
They are sold at Nordstroms though.

the ones sold at Nordstroms are the type that most SF'ers avoid.

The other problem with Santoni is they have a lot of low end shoes that dilute their brand.

Edward Green and John Lobb and Vass have no shoes that you have to worry about the quality of.

Some Santoni's are glued together.
post #33 of 54
Thats all 100% true. ^
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post
5. the "sock" liner method of establishing quality-level within their shoe scheme is worthless at best (just as is the type of stitching / welting as mentioned above)

6. Santoni's are a total crapshoot quality-wise and fit wise and are best tried on in person and evaluated that way.


The norvegese and bentivegna stitched Santoni's are their examples of the best the company offers. I challenge anyone to find a Santoni borvegese or bentivegna stitched shoe with anything but the finest leathers and workmanship the company has to offer (or ANY maker for that matter). I've handled somewhere around 30 pairs of these, and each pair was excellent.

That said, the rest of the offerings are "hit or miss" at best. Santoni's 1st problem is poor marketing. The sock method was confusing and did VERY little to indicate quality. This was probably Santoni's attempt to "cash in" on the popularity of their original FAM models (which were, in fact, well constructed and high quality). "Call it a FAM, and someone will buy it" worked for a while, and may well still work for those less informed about what constitutes "quality" in high-end shoes. For the better informed, "the gig is up".

Santoni's 2nd problem (at least from a marketing standpoint) was their love of norvegese & bentivegna construction. While the general public has moved away from those styles toward "sleeker" construction methods, Santoni held fast (and still does to some extent) to its core beliefs. As Santoni makes BEAUTIFUL and VERY high quality bentivegna & norvegese, the public wants something different. They use their best on these, while the rest is "a crapshoot". They probably SHOULD offer a consistent line of non-norv/ bent shoes which consistently showcases their best work & materials.

THAT said, some makers, like Lattanzi & Bettanin & venturi stick to their roots (for the most part) and make a nice living focusing on shoes they like to make rather than exactly what the general public wants. They will never make the mass market $$$ of some other better marketed makers, but they seem happy enough with their niche. Santoni tries to stay in the middle of these 2 philosophies.

I must note, I F*CKING LOVE Norvegese & Bentivegna shoes. The general public's rejection of these methods has only served to make it easier to attain some incredible shoes at the fraction of the price of some Aldens (which are so much inferior, in terms of construction & leather quality it's funny). If you want some mass-produced shell Aldens, get ready to pay (as in a typical SF Alden FS ad), "only $650 including shipping conus, only worn around 5-6 times, and I paid near $700". These shoes are NIB, retailed for $1200+, and the seller's asking round $600.

WHAT A DEAL!!! SOMEONE NEEDS TO BUY THESE, ON PRINCIPLE ALONE!!!
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post

Edward Green and John Lobb and Vass have no shoes that you have to worry about the quality of.


I'm beginning to wonder about the absolute "wonderfulness" of some of the leather used by EG. I've seen pics of 3 pairs with moderate leather cracking that never should have happened.

Lobbs also seem to "want to crack" after a point. I've seen a quadzillion pairs of old shoes on ebay, and a small percentage were suffering from cracks. Of the cracked ones, a large percentage of them were Lobbs, while Lobbs were a VERY small pecentage of all of the old shoes.
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post
I'm beginning to wonder about the absolute "wonderfulness" of some of the leather used by EG. I've seen pics of 3 pairs with moderate leather cracking that never should have happened.

Lobbs also seem to "want to crack" after a point. I've seen a quadzillion pairs of old shoes on ebay, and a small percentage were suffering from cracks. Of the cracked ones, a large percentage of them were Lobbs, while Lobbs were a VERY small pecentage of all of the old shoes.

Santoni's also crack - this happens to the best of all shoes.

And just because santoni threw a norvesge stitch on these does not make them any better than aldens or vass cordovans.

The sheer fact that the sizing is so inconsistent from santoni to santoni and no one has anything to compare these shoes to makes buying online all the more difficult.

Regarding santoni's - I agree - the gig is up with the whole sock method, and SF really does not appreciate or favor norvesge stitching - as there is limited value in this anyway.
post #37 of 54
This discussion has been brutal in its frankness but it was timely. Santoni needed to be called on their shoes and SF has done it! Hopefully the owners will read and absorb the brilliant analysis of Santoni's failings by Think Derm and Ishy et al. I have shied off buying Santonis simply for the above posted reasons.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by sartorialini View Post
ok, that is interesting to know
so why do you think that is?

what happened?- surely it was not something to do with the shoes themselves, whose quality hasn't changed that much for sure

was SF shoe section taken over by anglophiles and Austro- Hungarians, how and why?

it would be nice to try to reverse that trend a little

iGents group thinking also Santoni's design tend to be more out there than English shoes I guess. In terms of design Santoni LE are hit or misses (some people complain about it being elongated, but I think you can say the same thing about Crothy/G&G in some cases).
post #39 of 54
Anyone know if Santoni as a mass manufacture is still successful? I would think so, don't think their diffusion line is any worse than Ferragamo Studio... I think Norv. welt still has a decent niche, Santoni LE is priced a bit better than Berluti, no? Also you can rarely get discount on Berluti, but you can get discount on Santoni LE once a while.

Sizing in Santoni LE is just all over the place, you sometimes add 1.5, sometimes you add to 2 to get to US size. Though I think their regular line is pretty consistent in terms of sizing, as well as their typical FAM line.
post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post
Santoni's also crack - this happens to the best of all shoes.

And just because santoni threw a norvesge stitch on these does not make them any better than aldens or vass cordovans.

The sheer fact that the sizing is so inconsistent from santoni to santoni and no one has anything to compare these shoes to makes buying online all the more difficult.

Regarding santoni's - I agree - the gig is up with the whole sock method, and SF really does not appreciate or favor norvesge stitching - as there is limited value in this anyway.

1) didn't say Santoni's don't crack. DID say a large proportion of older Lobbs just seem that they do. Some of EG's recent "leather mis-haps" have also been documented on SF as well.

2) I agree about the sizing issues. Best to try them in person.

3) I never saw or heard of Santoni specifically saying different color FAM socks were indicitave of different levels of quality. I believe that was igents that LOVE to discuss mens fashion as if it were the conspiracy behind the JFK assassination, rather than just plain marketing.

4) Derm friend, do you own any norv or bent Santoni's? That's the only way you can really compare. The way you write about them, I'm sure you do not. If you did, your comparison to Aldens wouldn't have been made. There is no comparison. As for Vass, I believe that they may well make the best RTW shoe anywhere.
post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post
3) I never saw or heard of Santoni specifically saying different color FAM socks were indicitave of different levels of quality. I believe that was igents that LOVE to discuss mens fashion as if it were the conspiracy behind the JFK assassination, rather than just plain marketing.


Don't think they specify it, but you can just see it. I bought a Santoni FAM from the store on Madison when it was still around. It was definitely inferior to another FAM that was also on sale at the time (but wasn't LE), price differetnial was also like another 100~200 bucks. Both had Fatta a Manno on it with orange sock and both were plain toe derby.
post #42 of 54
purchased these, unfortunately they came damaged, seller refused refund. =(
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynWeGoHard View Post
purchased these, unfortunately they came damaged, seller refused refund. =(

Really? I was very close to buying these. What was the damage?
post #44 of 54
Yes, please let us know. I'm interested as well... I DID endorse the shoes (the brand and line) as being fantastic.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post
Yes, please let us know. I'm interested as well... I DID endorse the shoes (the brand and line) as being fantastic.

Endorsing a brand and a line is entirely separate from endorsing a member/seller so no foul there...

Please do describe the damage. I was eyeballing these as well. sorry you jumped on the grenade.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: FS: Men's Clothing (Archive)
Styleforum › Forums › Archives › Buying and Selling (Archive) › FS: Men's Clothing (Archive) › Santoni for Dunhill. UK size 8. Never worn/boxfresh