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Is expensive clothing really necessary anymore? - Page 2

post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by epa
This reminds me of the old joke about these two new rich Russians that meet in the doorway of an expensive restaurant. Ivanovich says: - Hey, Sergejovich, you are wearing the same tie as I! - Hey, Ivanovich, that is true! How much did you pay for yours? - 1000 dollars. - Hey, then these bastards cheated me, they only charged me 500 for mine...
Classic
post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasso

And I don't actually work out that much, just 3 times a week session of cardio and weights and some weekend warrior stuff when I'm at home (FYI I'm an IT exec, so I do travel quite often, it's not like I have a steady 9x5 job to plan around.). Oh, and 1 hour of yoga on the weekend with my lovely wife .

Anyway, back to the thread... hossoso's point is exactly what I mean, MTM (if sufficient)/bespoke (if too many alterations precludes MTM) allows you to tailor to your body to highlight the good bits and downplay the bad, and allow YOU to shine, not your clothes.
post #18 of 58
Bring me only beautiful useless things. - Carl Sandberg, "Murmurings in a Field Hospital"
post #19 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARon
Amen. Buy that man a beer!
post #20 of 58
Looking stylish in well made clothes is more a matter of correct silhouette paired to the wearer. I can try on Kiton and Brioni and there is a distinct difference in my appearance. Kiton shoulders make me look like a slouch. Brioni is much better for my frame. Big difference. The downfall of many wardrobes is men buy all across the board. They buy a brand name or the look of the cloth that appeals to them with little attention or awareness to cut and fit. Sales people in stores need to sell everything on the rack and may sell one person several makes which render different and distinct slhouettes, some flattering, some not. No one will look good in the wrong silhouette.

Another matter is the feel of the clothes. I make higher priced suits and most clients comment on the way the clothes feel when worn. I think that is the big hook. That is what keeps someone in a brand or a price range. Most Kiton buyers I know are seduced by the sweater like feel of their jackets. This "feel" is most difficult to reproduce in a garment.

The scale of Kiton's business is intrinsic to their pricing. 350 or so employees making 15,000 to 20,000 suits per year may sound big but the same amount of labor in a more automated factory can produce that amount in a week. Thats where the money and big profits are.
Marketing and advertising are essential to any business and no one today can reach their market without it. That is just reality. The percentages of marketing cost to production costs are probably much greater in the toothpaste or beer you buy than expensive clothing.

The costume designer statement does not surprise me. They are most concerned with image and less about make and quality. The clothes need to look good from a stage or on film and small details or interior construction are irrelevent. Same thought process as a set designer. A building facade can be created on a sheet of plywood propped up from behind with no interior.
post #21 of 58
What Chris is saying re Kiton is correct across the board. Even their "direct" competitors like Borrelli and Attolini do not come close to making a jacket that is so comfortible to wear. My guess is that they do better profit wise on the shirts and ties than on the suits. I think that the cloth that they use is so expensive to begin with that it is hard to make a huge profit even at the prices they charge.
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
I think that the cloth that they use is so expensive to begin with that it is hard to make a huge profit even at the prices they charge.
The cloths they use - cashmere, 150s, 180s, etc - can be had by a savvy individual at about 1/4 to 1/5 the Kiton retail prices. And since they buy wholesale, the prices they receive are lower than those quoted. I've no idea what the breakdown of their cost structure is, but there is probably space for some profit. I agree it will not be huge. Better than a bespoke tailor will make off each suit, I think, and worse than something like Hugo Boss.
post #23 of 58
I don't think that expensive clothes have ever been "necessary". However, they are desirable when they offer a better product in terms of durability, fit, or appearance. Once I find a proper fit and good appearance, I don't find it necessary to keep looking further upscale. Oxxford makes a great garment, but it doesn't fit me off the rack like Zegna or Burberry, so I'm not drawn to the brand.

That doesn't mean I won't take a chance here and there, since I know fit will vary between models, but the bottom line for me is - does it fit well and look good? As long as I stay (somewhat) slender and keep good posture, the differences won't be obvious to the casual observer.
post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopee
The cloths they use - cashmere, 150s, 180s, etc - can be had by a savvy individual at about 1/4 to 1/5 the Kiton retail prices. And since they buy wholesale, the prices they receive are lower than those quoted. I've no idea what the breakdown of their cost structure is, but there is probably space for some profit. I agree it will not be huge. Better than a bespoke tailor will make off each suit, I think, and worse than something like Hugo Boss.
Yes and no. You can get similar cashmeres and worsteds for those prices, but you have to compromise somewhere. Kiton forces you to compromise by having high prices. More "bargain" outlets will either have slightly lower quality, or more likely, less options or both. I do not know if they use the best 150s or 180s, but their cashmeres are the best I have seen in their class (super lightweight worsted). I agree with your sentiments about profit margin, and honestly, these kinds of cloths are not really my bag. I do think, however, that some of the priceing complaints re Kiton are about off. Yes, they are overpriced, but so is everything in the high end retail market. Apples to apples, however, I would bet that they are no more, and probably less than Brioni, Attolini, Borrelli and maybe even Oxxford (once you get into Oxxfords top end fabrics). The problem with Kiton is that they only have a top end while the others start at s100's and so do the prices. At least I think this is a problem, I imagine Kiton sees it as a strategy.
post #25 of 58
I am talking about the "Millionaire Cashmere" I know they use and a survey of high-count worsteds excluding the marked up big merchants and that stodgy (in a good way) one at the top of the heap. They seem of equal quality - that is, very good. What you do get with Kiton, especially with their cashmeres, are designs that are specified by them and simply aren't otherwise available, owing more to economic rather than creative difficulties. I certainly see how that could justify their higher cost. Take the following with a pillar of salt, given I do not shop very often. The jump from 100s or 120s to 150s really isn't that great for cloths. It's generally about double the price - roughly +$100-150/metre for me. Even accounting for a larger size and the higher price (unlikely that high), that's about $600 more for 150s (luxury) over 100s (basic for RTW these days - I know men who refuse this stuff now, when ten years ago they wet themselves over it's caress). It seems to me that the markup is a lot higher than that. The added cost could be justified by the greater difficulty in tailoring slippier cloths, which means that the more talented makers, being in lower supply, are better paid; more waste in mishaps; and the greater amount of time it takes to tailor the cloths. But for their partially machine-driven production, it matters less than for a handmake shop. I'm not trying to bash Kiton, btw. They make really nice clothes, but don't appeal to me. I could've saved a lot of time and bandwith by just QFE this: "Yes, they are overpriced, but so is everything in the high end retail market".
post #26 of 58
I'm not trying to bash Kiton, btw. They make really nice clothes, but don't appeal to me. I could've saved a lot of time and bandwith by just QFE this: "Yes, they are overpriced, but so is everything in the high end retail market".

Kiton does not appeal to me, either. Neither does Brioni. As for being overpriced, I'm not in any position, to comment. I will say this: I have yet to see any man's garment that can compare to what Balenciaga and Saint Laurent did for women, in haute couture. I'm talking tailored jackets, here . . . and trousers. Coats, as well. They are the finest, most brilliantly crafted pieces that I have ever seen. YSL'S Rive Gauche, was incredible, too.
post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopee

I'm not trying to bash Kiton, btw. They make really nice clothes, but don't appeal to me. I could've saved a lot of time and bandwith by just QFE this: "Yes, they are overpriced, but so is everything in the high end retail market".

I didn't think that you were. I was just trying to point out that they are no more or less overpriced than anything else in their section of the clothing market.
post #28 of 58
Quote:
My basic question is if all these expensive, highly marketed clothes can truly improve the average man's appearance in relation to their cost?

I think they can make a nice impact if put together well. Typically handmade clothes in my experience have nicer silhouettes and last longer and perhaps most importantly wear more comfortably.

Also, off the rack rarely fits anyone well in my experience. More money gets you the made to measure option for a better fit.

Also, in my experience more expensive clothes utilize better fabrics that even if finer like Super 120s and 150s have better durability and better appearance. Styling also tends to be more classic and last longer (years).

Caveat Emptor: Many trendy brands like Armani, Prada, Gucci, Theory are very expensive but not well made, only fit skinny guys, and use often poor fabrics, often with a high poly-fabric content.

Silver lining: there are several brands that offer good value for the money. If you need to spend less then you can still look great.
post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
Armani, Prada, Gucci, Theory are very expensive but not well made, only fit skinny guys

AF, I've been noticing that you regularly take shots at the skinny guys. If any of them go missing, I'll know who to look for.
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasso
AF, I've been noticing that you regularly take shots at the skinny guys. If any of them go missing, I'll know who to look for.

That's why I keep my location secret

Now, to answer the original question. The main reason I buy expensive clothes is because I know that not very many people will have the identical garmet.

I'm also learning to appreciate the better fit, quality, and fabrics of expensive clothing.
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