Building a house... where to start?

great discussion, gents! keep it coming.

we haven't really decided on a specific aesthetic, just an idea (clean lines, simple, spend money on a great kitchen...) I don't want a big house- just the right size for the 4 of us (and probably one more), and would probably use half of the property for a garden/lawn/yard.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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So that is my story.
That’s a good one! But, heck, at least they listened to your GF....

I had a project once; the clients were a retired couple, looking to add space onto their existing home. What was odd was that they wanted a new master BR, new master bath, and new home office, when they already had all that in the existing house, plus 2 now available (large) BRs that had been vacated by their children. What they really needed, I thought, was a more sensible layout/expansion of the living spaces and very small kitchen, oriented towards a nice back yard. But no. No way.

The wife was pretty bored/confused, and played on-line bridge at almost every meeting I had with them. The husband was a micro-manager whose sole (and constant, obsessive) requirement was that the new master BR be at least 21’ x 21’. It absolutely could not be less than 21’ in either direction. I pointed out that given the new BR location, size and shape, a beautiful mature tree would have to be sacrificed and that I thought that was a shame and not necessary. When I went to the next meeting, the tree was gone.

In short, it turned out that the entire project was simply the result of a major pissing contest between the father and his son, who had recently bought a house himself and had added (since newborns were on the way) a 20’ x 20’ master BR. Hence the absolute 21’ x 21’ requirement. I found this out when the project was complete and the husband invited me up to give me my final payment, see the completed work, and proceeded to tell me with great pride that he had had his son come over and measure the new BR. 21’ x 21’!!! FTW!!! No other reason. No rationality, no logic, no real improvement to the house. Just sad.

Originally Posted by venessian

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That’s a good one! But, heck, at least they listened to your GF....
it's just one of those things, they couldn't vision the plans on paper in conjunction with the site. A soon as it was noted they realized what the problem was and agreed that it made sense to fix it. It's a shame that people all too often buy from choice A, B, or C instead of having something tailored to their needs as a family that also maximizes the space around them.

Originally Posted by acidboy

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we haven't really decided on a specific aesthetic, just an idea (clean lines, simple, spend money on a great kitchen...)

FWIW, GF uses Poliform for the kitchens of a lot of her clients.

Originally Posted by venessian

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In short, it turned out that the entire project was simply the result of a major pissing contest between the father and his son, who had recently bought a house himself and had added (since newborns were on the way) a 20’ x 20’ master BR. Hence the absolute 21’ x 21’ requirement. I found this out when the project was complete and the husband invited me up to give me my final payment, see the completed work, and proceeded to tell me with great pride that he had had his son come over and measure the new BR. 21’ x 21’!!! FTW!!! No other reason. No rationality, no logic, no real improvement to the house. Just sad.

this is the kind of **** I will avoid. hey, do you have a collection of your work we can see? (not to copy off) +++ btw- I also do not wish to build what you 'murkans call a mcmansion. nothing of that sort.

Originally Posted by acidboy

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this is the kind of **** I will avoid.

hey, do you have a collection of your work we can see? (not to copy off)

+++

btw- I also do not wish to build what you 'murkans call a mcmansion. nothing of that sort.

Yeah, that project was pretty much a sad thing. The project turned out fine, except for the tree, but the dynamics were just very bizarre and quite immature.

Thanks for the kind words, but I don't think posting stuff I've done would be very appropriate here. However, I'm certainly willing to advise or comment on specifics you may have in the future, re: your project. Then again, you seem pretty clear on your direction, and too many cooks usually just adds confusion.

Thank gawd for no McMansion! Are you not in the US though?
[EDIT]: I see now in the post you referenced in your OP that you are in Quezon City. I have never been to the Philippines. I remember looking at some of Leandro Locsin's concrete stuff (in books) years ago. I think he's the only Filipino architect whose work I know. Is there an interesting new generation there now?

Anyway, this thread could become a good one.

Best of luck with your project!

Originally Posted by venessian

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Thank gawd for no McMansion! Are you not in the US though? [EDIT]: I see now in the post you referenced in your OP that you are in Quezon City. I have never been to the Philippines. I remember looking at some of Leandro Locsin's concrete stuff (in books) years ago. I think he's the only Filipino architect whose work I know. Is there an interesting new generation there now? Anyway, this thread could become a good one. Best of luck with your project!
lindy locsin and franciso manosa are probably the most praised architects here because of their original works. most architects just copy off something from ad or whatever's in fashion right now. we're definitely going to look for an architect that will strike a balance between listening to what we want and suggesting what would be good for us. thanks for the kind words and the well wishes, I do hope we don't screw this up and maybe the final product would be post-worthy and maybe this thread can be a reference point for more gents here.

Originally Posted by venessian

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I mean, you stated this yourself: "Acid, don't try to reinvent the wheel...", no?
Yet, you yourself then state: "...don't waste money on some Roark wannabe.", which sort of exemplifies a very common attitude towards architects.

Lighten up, Francis. I'm taking the piss out of you for suggesting it's you who hires the client.

Originally Posted by NorCal

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Lighten up, Francis. I'm taking the piss out of you for suggesting it's you who hires the client.

Well, whatever. In a way, an architect does hire a client. I see it that way: if it's not a genuine, open collaboration, what's the point? (See Frank Gehry telling Steve Wynn and his dog-ass billion dollar baby project to **** off.)

But, again, whatever.

I'm trying to be helpful here and provide some polite advice.

You?

c'mon stick to the topic, gents.

There are two ways to go about the design process.

1) Starting with a "vision" of a similar home plan and chasing the details from there in materials and construction down to door handles and range hoods.

or

2) Starting with the details (materials and construction type) and developing the design elements (form, spatial arrangements, fixtures) towards a "vision."


Go with #2 every time. It's the only way to prevent yourself from getting in over your heads on costs that could force you to cut corners to meet your initial vision (in square footage, amenities) and budget. If you provide the architect with the means of construction and the materials you want to live in, it will allow him a better opportunity to develop the house in a rational manner and the ability to keep him focused on the design of the spaces. When you give a home builder a concept like "rustic French villa" or something like that, he's going to fetishize elements and stock types instead of your living needs.


The first thing you want to choose is what exterior material and what framing technique you want.

^
I would hardly define materials and construction type as "details".

In my opinion, both of those examples are limited and extreme, restrictive and too complex at the same time. How many clients are so well-versed in means and methods, framing techniques, etc? And why should they be; that's not their responsibility.

The 3 essential components are site, budget, program. The "vision" will emerge, flexibly at first and then more concretely, from discussions, explorations, and compromises revolving around those 3 issues. The "vision" cannot be known at the outset (unless of course one is buying a pre-packaged plan, which the OP is not). Starting with too many pre-conceived notions is only going to limit possibilities, and in no way guarantees that a budget will be maintained.

I'm picturing people going to an architect and showing them photos they ripped out of a magazine and saying "We want it like that." In that scenario, construction method and materials are "details." Most people try to work from overall vision down to those choices. I don't think they're details either.

When those levels of construction and material quality are choices left to be made later in the process, it's usually inevitable that the actual design does not utilize their value and the design characteristics that are inseparable from their purpose.

^
Yes, in general I agree.
I would say that "When those levels of construction and material quality are choices left to be made too late..." then you are 100% correct.

On the other hand, too early and they become a restraint. By "too early" I mean essentially at the outset. However, when the architect does a code search, program evaluation (such as "multi-story") etc., by then the framing options should be pretty clear. Cladding may or may not be known at that time.

I realize this is an extreme example in this thread (and perhaps you as an architect (I think you are an architect?) already know this story), but the Guggenheim Bilbao was always planned to be clad in stainless steel. Framing was resolved, sub-framing was in design. Then, fortituously, Russia started dumping titanium on the market. Stainless had been half the price of ti panels. However, between the reduced cost of the dumped titanium, and the much lighter sub-framing required, titanium turned out to be the less expensive option. A rare coincidence, sure, but local conditions always affect initial decisions.

Originally Posted by venessian

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Well, whatever. In a way, an architect does hire a client. I see it that way: if it's not a genuine, open collaboration, what's the point? (See Frank Gehry telling Steve Wynn and his dog-ass billion dollar baby project to **** off.)

umm.. you just compared your process to that of Frank Ghery, again I say, high opinion much?

Anyway I'll stop but please do notice I did provide advice from a builders prospective, I'm not just here messing with you.

Acid, where do you live? As in which state?

I 't think in the form v. materials debate one will often determine the other. If you love the single story 1950's mod look with an open floor plan that will determine to a large degree what materials you can use to build with.

Think about light, exposure, how your view will develop, privacy, noise, and most importantly, how you will actually use your home. What will you actually do in it? Don't add elements just b/c.