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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 659

post #9871 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Sour grapes right term wrong guy. It's you not me.
Show us where I said that you didn't make shoes.
Show us the facts where sole guards ruin shoes. I don't mean as a result of an inept faulty cobbler or a customer that did not use the product for it's intended purpose (unknowingly). There are lot's of things that we disagreed with and I asked you to prove. You didn't because you couldn't.
I happily accept that you no more about making shoes/boots than me. When it comes to repairs, you don't.
And the fact that you cherry-pick a lot that I write and ignore the stuff you can't answer hiding behind your long-winded diatribes tells me you can't answer.
Yes, you write better than me...hip-hip horaaaay!!!!!! Big freaking deal. You use THAT as a tool to win a dispute?
As someone who knows my business your nothing but a self-centered, phony, wind-bag.

Sour grapes...absolutely correct description for you

It's you that's cherry-picking, nit picking really. I wouldn't know where to begin to find the post where you you questioned my skills. I'd have to have replied to it in order to search for it. And the chances are poor that I did simply because it's so mind-bogglingly silly. But in this discussion you've repeatedly called me a "phoney."

Phoney what? I don't claim to know anything about watches or suits, I don't claim to be a fashion plate or stylish. I simply don't claim any expertise in any area but what I know--shoes...the making of them, the materials they're made of, the traditions surrounding them. And a large, large base of experience with fit and the foot and with people who wear shoes. I don't claim any skills or knowledge I don't have. I don't speak or write about issues I don't know anything about without first clearly stating that I don't know anything about it.

I also know shoe repair from the inside out. I claim to know shoe repair simply because I was trained in it and have done it for many years.

You, on the other hand, get offended every time I remind you that you, yourself, said that you don't do any of the actual physical work in the shoe repair shop yourself. Apparently, you can't even come to terms--accept, admit and be comfortable--with the honest reality of what you do...and don't do.

So what is the basis of your claim to expertise? How do you justify advising other people about shoes and shoe construction, etc.? You don't make shoes, you don't actually do the shoe repair...never get your hands dirty...and yet you pretend to know everything worth knowing about how shoes are made or what materials are satisfactory in what conditions for what people. And yes, the word that most applies to you is "pretend." Pretense. Even when you are forced to admit that you don't do the work, you posture and pose as if you did/do. That's as "phoney" as it comes.

You echo other posers remarks about my tooting my own horn. It's true, I am not afraid to say what I know. I am not afraid to let people who don't know me know what I do. "It's not arrogance to say what you know professionally. It is arrogance to reject expert opinion without having expertise of your own."

Yet it seems to me that you trumpet yourself and your reputation and integrity...when those were never in question...as often or more often than anyone here. That's not only phoney, it's "methinks she doth protest too much."

You claim to "prove" issues....but the only "proof" you offer (as with the business of stretching shoes lengthwise) is the assertions that you've done it. Not whether you should have done it. I never, ever, said it couldn't be done, I simply said it couldn't be done without distorting the shoe. I offered a detailed explanation of why stretching a shoe lengthwise would distort it, along with an illustration to remind you of the mechanics of the process.

And you offered nothing in reply but stubborn insistence that you have repeatedly distorted customers shoes--if you're stretching shoes that cannot be stretched without distortion, then distortion is what you're really doing. No proof there except in your own mind.

And it desperately begs the question whether you really do know anything about the structure or limitations of shoes...and, by extension, about shoe repair. Because if you think distorting a shoe just because you can is good shoe repair, you're way off track. Best practices would be to recognize, and make the customer recognize, the limitation of a shoe--"it's too short for you, you bought it a size too small, I can't stretch it without distorting it." Anything else is, in my opinion, just taking their money. No integrity or ethical behaviour in doing that...not in my opinion.

I never said that sole guards, per se, ruined shoes. Another figment of your imagination. And don't bother to take my words out of context to present some bogus proof. I think and speak with some deliberation (at least I don't go calling people names at the drop of the hat), I often deliberately leave myself some wiggle room when I make remarks that I am only 99.9% sure of. I do that deliberately. When I spoke about sole guards ruining shoes I did so in the context of shoe repairmen and the repeated replacement on shoes worn by customers who were not as fastidious about taking care of their shoes as they might be. I know you can read the words, I suspect you have trouble assimilating the meaning.

I answer your posts according to what I consider important issues to address, not according to what you think are your best scoring points. And that's the way it will always be. I'm not going to change.

And yes, I use words, and my writing skills, to communicate. To...as clearly as I can...communicate my thoughts, experiences and knowledge. Words are tools and I am a tool user, if I am anything. I try to choose words carefully...for job--the right tool for the right job.

It's an act of love and respect. Would you rather I talked down to you...would you prefer that I assume that you're not capable of understanding? Not capable of maintaining focus and attention beyond the time it takes to run a 20 second commercial? If you'd prefer grunts and chest pounding, you need to talk to someone else.

On the other hand, I don't often criticize other people for their inability to write; for using "no" when they meant "know," for instance. It's inarticulate, illiterate, uneducated, and hard to read but I don't criticize.

Finally, I don't regard any of this as a contest. I am not looking to "win." You brought it up so obviously you do consider it a contest and winning to be important. I believe that if knowledge is to be "free," it needs to be reliable and accurate. With regard to shoemaking, and my contributions on SF, that's my mission--to be a foil for all the ignorance parading and posturing on the internet. And sometimes people (when they get it in their heads), as well.

--
Edited by DWFII - 6/26/14 at 6:55am
post #9872 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post


generally dubbin has beeswax in it!  according to brands i use WOLY dubbin(better nourishing and conditioning but it need at least 2 days to be fully absorbed) or Movi londra dubbin(has a more wired smell but is faster absorbed and can achieve higher shine) about wax any carnuba wax is ok just not to have petroleum distillates in it!
hope i helped a little bit

A word of caution...dubbin (never used or seen that brand) might be a good answer for this situation but beeswax is not hard enough to shine...it will gleam, for a while...and is actually soft enough that it picks up and holds grit and dirt against the leather. It's a wax so in the absence of some sort of solvent carrier such as turp or petroleum distillates, it isn't really gonna be absorbed, either.
post #9873 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Sour grapes...absolutely correct description for you

It's you that's cherry-picking, nit picking really. I wouldn't know where to begin to find the post where you you questioned my skills. I'd have to have replied to it in order to search for it. And the chances are poor that I did simply because it's so mind-bogglingly silly. But in this discussion you've repeatedly called me a "phoney."

Phoney what? I don't claim to know anything about watches or suits, I don't claim to be a fashion plate or stylish. I simply don't claim any expertise in any area but what I know--shoes...the making of them, the materials they're made of, the traditions surrounding them. And a large, large base of experience with fit and the foot and with people who wear shoes. I don't claim any skills or knowledge I don't have. I don't speak or write about issues I don't know anything about without first clearly stating that I don't know anything about it.

I also know shoe repair from the inside out. I claim to know shoe repair simply because I was trained in it and have done it for many years.

You, on the other hand, get offended every time I remind you that you, yourself, said that you don't do any of the actual physical work in the shoe repair shop yourself. Apparently, you can't even come to terms--accept, admit and be comfortable--with the honest reality of what you do...and don't do.

So what is the basis of your claim to expertise? How do you justify advising other people about shoes and shoe construction, etc.? You don't make shoes, you don't actually do the shoe repair...never get your hands dirty...and yet you pretend to know everything worth knowing about how shoes are made or what materials are satisfactory in what conditions for what people. And yes, the word that most applies to you is "pretend." Pretense. Even when you are forced to admit that you don't do the work, you posture and pose as if you did/do. That's as "phoney" as it comes.

You echo other posers remarks about my tooting my own horn. It's true, I am not afraid to say what I know. I am not afraid to let people who don't know me know what I do. "It's not arrogance to say what you know professionally. It is arrogance to reject expert opinion without having expertise of your own."

Yet it seems to me that you trumpet yourself and your reputation and integrity...when those were never in question...as often or more often than anyone here. That's not only phoney, it's "methinks she doth protest too much."

You claim to "prove" issues....but the only "proof" you offer (as with the business of stretching shoes lengthwise) is the assertions that you've done it. Not whether you should have done it. I never, ever, said it couldn't be done, I simply said it couldn't be done without distorting the shoe. I offered a detailed explanation of why stretching a shoe lengthwise would distort it, along with an illustration to remind you of the mechanics of the process.

And you offered nothing in reply but stubborn insistence that you have repeatedly distorted customers shoes--if you're stretching shoes that cannot be stretched without distortion, then distortion is what you're really doing. No proof there except in your own mind.

And it desperately begs the question whether you really do know anything about the structure or limitations of shoes...and, by extension, about shoe repair. Because if you think distorting a shoe just because you can is good shoe repair, you're way off track. Best practices would be to recognize, and make the customer recognize, the limitation of a shoe--"it's too short for you, you bought it a size too small, I can't stretch it without distorting it." Anything else is, in my opinion, just taking their money. No integrity or ethical behaviour in doing that...not in my opinion.

I never said that sole guards, per se, ruined shoes. Another figment of your imagination. And don't bother to take my words out of context to present some bogus proof. I think and speak with some deliberation (at least I don't go calling people names at the drop of the hat), I often deliberately leave myself some wiggle room when I make remarks that I am only 99.9% sure of. I do that deliberately. When I spoke about sole guards ruining shoes I did so in the context of shoe repairmen and the repeated replacement on shoes worn by customers who were not as fastidious about taking care of their shoes as they might be. I know you can read the words, I suspect you have trouble assimilating the meaning.

I answer your posts according to what I consider important issues to address, not according to what you think are your best scoring points. And that's the way it will always be. I'm not going to change.

And yes, I use words, and my writing skills, to communicate. To...as clearly as I can...communicate my thoughts, experiences and knowledge. Words are tools and I am a tool user, if I am anything. I try to choose words carefully...for job--the right tool for the right job.

It's an act of love and respect. Would you rather I talked down to you...would you prefer that I assume that you're not capable of understanding? Not capable of maintaining focus and attention beyond the time it takes to run a 20 second commercial? If you'd prefer grunts and chest pounding, you need to talk to someone else.

On the other hand, I don't often criticize other people for their inability to write; for using "no" when they meant "know," for instance. It's inarticulate, illiterate, uneducated, and hard to read but I don't criticize.

Finally, I don't regard any of this as a contest. I am not looking to "win." You brought it up so obviously you do consider it a contest and winning to be important. I believe that if knowledge is to be "free," it needs to be reliable and accurate. With regard to shoemaking, and my contributions on SF, that's my mission--to be a foil for all the ignorance parading and posturing on the internet. And sometimes people (when they get it in their heads), as well.

--

Didn't bother reading this....
Why waste my time with someone that has proven to me he is nothing but jelous, arrogant, old wind-bag.
I hope you get well soon. Good day Sir.
post #9874 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Didn't bother reading this....
Why waste my time with someone that has proven to me he is nothing but jelous, arrogant, old wind-bag.
I hope you get well soon. Good day Sir.

I'd be surprised if you were even able to read it.

But thanks for quoting it again...for others, of course.
post #9875 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


A word of caution...dubbin (never used or seen that brand) might be a good answer for this situation but beeswax is not hard enough to shine...it will gleam, for a while...and is actually soft enough that it picks up and holds grit and dirt against the leather. It's a wax so in the absence of some sort of solvent carrier such as turp or petroleum distillates, it isn't really gonna be absorbed, either.

yes thats very good observation !! in dubbin there is about 5% beeswax depending on the brand if i remember correctly!!

 

thats  why i said using it combined with carnuba paste wax and not alone!! the solvents from the paste wax will desolve the beeswax and make it absorbed leaving only the carnuba wax at surface!! then with a good buff you can rase a very good shine!!At least thats what i see on my shoes!!(the surface is hard-shinny and not sticky at all!)

post #9876 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

yes thats very good observation !! in dubbin there is about 5% beeswax depending on the brand if i remember correctly!!

thats  why i said using it combined with carnuba paste wax and not alone!! the solvents from the paste wax will desolve the beeswax and make it absorbed leaving only the carnuba wax at surface!! then with a good buff you can rase a very good shine!!At least thats what i see on my shoes!!(the surface is hard-shinny and not sticky at all!)

+1 Carnuba is hard...a good shining wax. Not 100% certain, but probably the foundation of any product that purports to shine leather.
post #9877 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

On the other hand, I don't often criticize other people for their inability to write; for using "no" when they meant "know," for instance. It's inarticulate, illiterate, uneducated, and hard to read but I don't criticize.

 

Yes; you just did.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I'd be surprised if you were even able to read it.

 

There it is, again.

post #9878 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I'd be surprised if you were even able to read it.

But thanks for quoting it again...for others, of course.

 

I feel like I learned a good amount while subscribed to this thread. Cheers, everyone!

post #9879 of 19050
I do appreciate the wealth of knowledge DW seems to share regarding shoe care. Personally I enjoy reading his long responses. I'm the least articulate person I know so I feel like I'm doing double duty, by reading more about shoe care as well as his articulate way being informative.

I don't even know why you two were/are arguing but it is becoming a bit tiring. If you guys want to continue take it to pm, I'm sure I"m not the only one who feels this way. cheers.gif
post #9880 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

Yes; you just did.


There it is, again.

Of course I did.That was the whole point of my post. In situations where people are engaging in indisputable ad hominem attacks, calling me names, or distorting my remarks, and esp. when there's a history, I am not ever...or seldom, at least...going to let it pass.

In ordinary conversation, however, I disregard such awkwardness. There are so many people from non-English speaking countries that post here that a person could criticize all day and do nothing else, if they were so inclined.

On the other hand, unless you're an English professor, you're nitpicking and criticizing yourownself. And making clear your biases. Where were your criticisms in the previous several pages when the name calling and distortion was running full spate?

Respect engenders respect, vitriol engenders...a defense if nothing else.

--
Edited by DWFII - 6/26/14 at 9:09am
post #9881 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleroller View Post

I do appreciate the wealth of knowledge DW seems to share regarding shoe care. Personally I enjoy reading his long responses. I'm the least articulate person I know so I feel like I'm doing double duty, by reading more about shoe care as well as his articulate way being informative.

I don't even know why you two were/are arguing but it is becoming a bit tiring. If you guys want to continue take it to pm, I'm sure I"m not the only one who feels this way. cheers.gif

I don't like it either. I get along with almost every one on this forum even if they disagree with me as long as they approach my posts with an open mind. Like I said, my posts are an act of love and respect.
post #9882 of 19050
That's how I've always seen them. bigstar[1].gif
post #9883 of 19050

Benhour,

Just to clarify: do you use dubbin on all of your shoes or just on wet weather ones?

Thanks, as always, Munky.

post #9884 of 19050

Call me prissy but it would be good to see a bit of mutual respect on this thread. Personal animosities tend to be crowding out important shoe-related issues!   :lookaround:

post #9885 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Benhour,

Just to clarify: do you use dubbin on all of your shoes or just on wet weather ones?

Thanks, as always, Munky.

No problem at all my friend as you know i am really happy to help when i can !! :)

i use it on all my shoes but not all the time!when i see they need it (once every month generally)! the only disadvantage is that makes light shoes turn slightly darker after  some applications!!

At dubbin case less is more is the golden rule!!(if you over apply it will take too long to get absorbed, depending on the brand but once i overdone it ,it dried after about 1 week so i could buff)

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