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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 653

post #9781 of 11875
Yeah, people are always amazed on this forum how fast I go through soles. I probably walk 25 miles a week on average. These suburbs people who shuffle to a car and sit in a desk all day only to get back in their car, well, yeah, you're shoes will last you a long time. Me, not so much.
post #9782 of 11875
What is the maximum amount of resoles you got on a pair, P?
post #9783 of 11875

I probably do close to that (more when I'm in NY and less when I'm in DC) as I live and work in the city in both places.  You're also a 6-something chap, no?  I imagine that weighing more would impact sole wear as well (I'm 5-9 and 175).

post #9784 of 11875
Wearing leather soles...every day...on cement or concrete, I usually get 9-12 months before I need to resole.

If the shoe is well made, it can be resoled almost indefinitely...or until the upper wears out, whichever comes first. More importantly, it can be resoled at a local, competent shoe repair shop, at a quarter the price and in a fraction of the time it takes to send a less well made shoe back to the factory for "re-crafting."

Both of these aspects are deliberate--shoes, as they evolved and were originally conceived, are meant to be resoled.
post #9785 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstomcat View Post

I understand the logical sequence of events that you cite but arent Topy's supposed to be replaced when they wear out to protect the underlying leather outsole? It is about doing Topy the right way, and replacing them when required or else I dont see any difference of not using them.



Exactly correct. Any cobbler that would risk damaging the integrity of a shoe by reapplying a sole guard that has been worn beyond it's intended purpose is not much of a craftsman. Nor is he interested in doing the right thing for his customer.
post #9786 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbfn View Post

What is the maximum amount of resoles you got on a pair, P?

I've had soles replaced like 3 or 4 times before the uppers failed so badly they end up in the garbage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post

I probably do close to that (more when I'm in NY and less when I'm in DC) as I live and work in the city in both places.  You're also a 6-something chap, no?  I imagine that weighing more would impact sole wear as well (I'm 5-9 and 175).

Yeah, I'm 6' 2"isn probably 185 on a good day.
post #9787 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Exactly correct. Any cobbler that would risk damaging the integrity of a shoe by reapplying a sole guard that has been worn beyond it's intended purpose is not much of a craftsman. Nor is he interested in doing the right thing for his customer.

I'm certain you would not do this.

That said, when you come right down to it your statement doesn't quite jibe.

How, for instance, is the best, most dedicated/diligent, cobbler supposed to insure that the customer doesn't wear/hasn't worn the topy "beyond its intended purpose?"

Most of the time, the customer wouldn't even know when that 'point of no return' had been reached.

And once the customer has, then what? You've seen/taken in shoes like that, I know you have.

More importantly, it could be argued that if a customer is putting Topy on in the first place, it is for reasons...as mentioned several times in this discussion...such as convenience or for some perceived cost saving. Those customers don't have your standards of "craftsmanship." At bottom, they don't recognize the necessity of maintenance to the extent or level that is implied in owing a high end leather shoe, and are looking for ways to circumvent such travails and not have to think about or exert themselves beyond a minimum.

--
Edited by DWFII - 6/24/14 at 8:17pm
post #9788 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I'm certain you would not do this.

That said, when you come right down to it your statement doesn't quite jibe.

How, for instance, is the best, most dedicated/diligent, cobbler supposed to insure that the customer doesn't wear/hasn't worn the topy "beyond it's intended purpose?"

Most of the time, the customer wouldn't even know when that 'point of no return' had been reached.

And once the customer has, then what? You've seen them/taken in shoes like that, I know you have.

More importantly, it could be argued that if a customer is putting Topy on in the first place, it is for reasons...as mentioned several times in this discussion...such as convenience or for some perceived cost saving. Those customers don't have your standards of "craftsmanship." At bottom, they don't recognize the necessity of maintenance to the extent or level that is implied in owing a high end leather shoe, and are looking for ways to circumvent such travails and not have to think about or exert themselves beyond a minimum.

--

It's not my place to tell a customer what to do. However, I feel it is my responsibility to inform and sometimes educate a customer when such circumstances occur. If he insists on us doing a job that won't come out right, I refuse the job. that's my right.
Our integrity and reputation is more important than any single job.
post #9789 of 11875

I can't say I agree with all of the "shame" in applying a topy to your shoe. I understand both arguments for, and against it, and its just something that is a case by case basis. Where I currently work, the entire floor is tile/marble, and this makes most of my leather soles fairly slippery, especially in inclement weather. Thus, i've had a topy applied to some (not all) of my shoes, and it works out just fine. Provides the extra indoor traction I need.

 

It has nothing to do with cost really. I prefer the look of the leather outsole (side profile) more than a danite( or something comparable) on the models i've had the topy on. I have a pair of boots with a topy, and when the topy is worn through, I might replace the whole sole and get something like a danite, as I think that would look great on them.

 

Essentially, what i'm saying is that its all a case by case basis, and blanket statements can't really be made. At least in my opinion. I understand a topy doesn't look at good as a nice leather outsole (from the bottom), but I am willing to sacrifice that on a few pairs for the added traction all day at work. Also, when 99% of people I know wear shoes from either Aldo or wal-mart, its hard to feel anyone will notice the difference. Most people don't know what a shoe brush is used for these days, let alone shoe trees, or topys.

post #9790 of 11875

DWF

Is it your view that a 'good' cobbler can do as good a job - or better, than would be the case with returning shoes to their makers for a refit? It would certainly be cheaper but I'm not sure how to tell a good cobbler from a mediocre one. 

post #9791 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

DWF
Is it your view that a 'good' cobbler can do as good a job - or better, than would be the case with returning shoes to their makers for a refit? It would certainly be cheaper but I'm not sure how to tell a good cobbler from a mediocre one. 

Munky,

It depends on the maker and it depends on the work.

When I was doing repair work regularly, I always thought that I could do a better job than the manufacturers...or perhaps the better way of saying it was that I could improve upon their work.

For instance, if a manufacturer used paperboard heel stacks and they got worn down (as they always did), I figured replacing one or more lifts with leather was definitely a better job. Or sewing the outsole with a closed, hidden channel a better job than open channels or stitching aloft.

Of course that's presuming a lot. It presumes I know what the maker intended when he chose the paperboard stack and what the customer wanted when he bought the shoes.

When I became a maker my perception began to change.

Frankly, I doubt that any shoe repair can "re-craft" a gemmed shoe as well as the factory. (And obviously the factories agree to the extent that the warranty will often be voided if anyone but they work on any part of the shoes.) You need the original lasts, you need the original equipment. Without the last you can never be sure that you've got the size and shape of the insole correct if only because insoles shrink and distort significantly during wear. The original equipment insures that new holes...additional "ticket stub" perforations...are not being made.

Craftsmanship is not about doing what you want to believe is right or hope is correct. It is about respecting original intent, best practices, the materials, and the foot....along with what you know is right.

Hand welted shoes could, at one time, probably be resoled as well by the repairman as by the original maker. Much of that skill and knowledge has fallen by the way as hand welted shoes become scarcer. And of course, the repairman might not have access to the same quality of materials as the maker.

But, again...and again...shoes evolved, very purposefully, to be repaired by cobblers. Frankly, I am always glad when a customer of mine finds a repairman that can repair his shoes. I will gladly do it, of course, but it takes away from my time to build new shoes/boots.

Today, I am sure there are some repairmen who could still do a competent job...and again at a fraction of the cost in time and money.

As far as how you tell whether a shoe repairman is competent or not---the same way you tell if a shoe will fit, or if a "recrafting" job at the factory is going to be up-to-snuff--you give it a try.
post #9792 of 11875

Thank you, DWF. Detailed food for thought, as always. Much appreciated. 

post #9793 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Thank you, DWF. Detailed food for thought, as always. Much appreciated. 

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

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post #9794 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


That's ridiculous..if a country doesn't have good cobblers, who is putting the Topy on?!

And yes, it's convenient...just like fast food. Or spray paint on a Ferrari.

I am saying that we have cobblers to put on Topy's, but no one skilled enough to do a resoling, hence necessitating sending of shoes halfway round the world for resoling, with attendant costs, risks of loss in transit and delays.

 

I was about to say something rude about your power of comprehension, but I will suggest that you focus on the gist of the message rather than on bits and pieces you are able to refute and ignoring the ones you cant.

 

Yes, fast food is convenient and has its place, although it should not be taken to excess.  Same principle applies to everything in life, including some of your ridiculous notions foisted onto others without any understanding (nay, even knowledge) of context and circumstances.

post #9795 of 11875
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I'm not sure that's either the issue or the answer.

What do you do about fine suits? Or hair styling, or crisp crackers?

You wear a raincoat, right? A hat? And hold an umbrella over the HorD'eurves.

Ever hear of Swims or Tingley's ?

You're just getting dogmatic, I can carry umbrella (raincoat would be way too hot in that kind of weather, hated rain coat ever since I was a kid), swim, in my opinion is super ugly, and unpractical. I can live with carry umbrella most of the time when, but swims, definitely not.
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