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post #8626 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northampton Novice View Post


Completely agree dirt and dust are serious enemies of leather and major factors that lead directly to cracking.

Conditioners that don't penetrate or indeed migrate within the leather exacerbate the situation no end.
Solvents do dry leather, but there is no getting away from the fact that almost all products (a couple claim to be solvent free apparently, but I remain dubious) will contain at least one solvent. Whether you can smell them or not, as several can be odourless, the likelihood is that they will be present.

Some solvents are of course more deleterious than others, such as aromatic hydrocarbons. Then of course there is the universal solvent - water!

Water is certainly not the universal solvent. Water solubilizes polarized organic or mineral molecules. Uncharged (non-polar) molecules such as fats/oils/waxes will not solubilize in water unless a suitable surfactant (soap or detergent - different degrees of the same thing) is added. Surfactants solubilize oils/fats by the formation of mycelles.

post #8627 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post

Water is certainly not the universal solvent. Water solubilizes polarized organic or mineral molecules. Uncharged (non-polar) molecules such as fats/oils/waxes will not solubilize in water unless a suitable surfactant (soap or detergent - different degrees of the same thing) is added. Surfactants solubilize oils/fats by the formation of mycelles.
That's a phrase I would say if I ever go to the Wizard and get a brain.
post #8628 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post


That's a phrase I would say if I ever go to the Wizard and get a brain.


Could you tell me that wizard's address, I'd like to go and see him ?

post #8629 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post

Nice looking shoes I do agree ! Just a maybe stupid question. There is a visible mark on the first two photos, a pressure mark on the outside of the left shoe welt. Are you by any chance a city bike rider ? I've seen similar marks on shoes used to ride to work on bicycles - the pedal or toe clip made them. If so, this could explain the creasing and the turned-up front part of the welt ? In fact, as I am warming to my detective work, there is also a flattened mark on the very front of the welt at the toe, indicating some similar unusual use - the position of the front part of the toe strap may be ?. Well, just a longshot.

I don't know anything about bike riding...in city or in the mountains...but unless we're looking at two different points, what I think you're seeing is just the "corner" of the spade outsole.

I do see a "dent" in the upper surface of the welt, now that I look at it more closely. Is that what you're referring to? How would a bike cause that?
post #8630 of 19843
Naw, I'd never ride in my dress shoes.
post #8631 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post


Could you tell me that wizard's address, I'd like to go and see him ?
Follow the.... Nah. Too easy.
post #8632 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post


Follow the.... Nah. Too easy.

:crackup:

post #8633 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I don't know anything about bike riding...in city or in the mountains...but unless we're looking at two different points, what I think you're seeing is just the "corner" of the spade outsole.

I do see a "dent" in the upper surface of the welt, now that I look at it more closely. Is that what you're referring to? How would a bike cause that?


Yes, that's what  I was referring to - in the second photo in the series, showing the strange pressure mark or wearing of the outside part of the welt, and not just the top, but also from the bottom, for me it is reminiscent of cycle pedal  marks. And the last photo in the series, which shows the flattening of the front part of the toe ( which is not apparent in the other photos). Glad to hear what the shoe owner has to say !

post #8634 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by tifosi View Post

Follow the.... Nah. Too easy.

I'm still at the solubilize part.........
post #8635 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post

Water is certainly not the universal solvent.

We'll actually it is - it's a scientific observation and is widely accepted as true.

You seem to have provided a rudimentary explanation of the action by which compounds dissociate - this is not why water is termed the universal solvent. The term is based on the relative static permittivity indices and the phenomena of dielectric constant, where water holds the highest value of any known solvent.
post #8636 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northampton Novice View Post


We'll actually it is - it's a scientific observation and is widely accepted as true.

You seem to have provided a rudimentary explanation of the action by which compounds dissociate - this is not why water is termed the universal solvent. The term is based on the relative static permittivity indices and the phenomena of dielectric constant, where water holds the highest value of any known solvent.

wurt

 

A high dielectric constant = more polar. That doesn't mean a solvent is more universal. Something with a super high dielectric constant is not going to solvate something super nonpolar.

 

The whole concept of water water being a universal solvent is in biological context, not chemical.

post #8637 of 19843

Usually water stains/mark can be buffed out with a cloth. 

 

But for this unique pair, one little drop and I can't get the mark out.

 

Any remedies? 

post #8638 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It is scary, that according to the MSDS it says there are silicones in it.

I honestly think getting some pure Dr. Bronner's coconut oil is probably the best thing you can put on leather in terms of conditioning.

It's strange...I was working with some very fine French calf yesterday and thinking about Bick4 while using it to chase pipes.

Most of the silicone products, both commercial retail and wholesale, that I have used are great waterproofers. But Bick4 almost washes away with water. Not entirely...but I use it on dry and wet leather and can always re-wet the leather. So if there are silicones in Bick4 (not doubting) they are not there in large amounts or are in some form that I'm not familiar with...and not sure I'm concerned about.

Just some thoughts..."straight from the bench"

--
Edited by DWFII - 3/27/14 at 6:09pm
post #8639 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It is scary, that according to the MSDS it says there are silicones in it.

I honestly think getting some pure Dr. Bronner's coconut oil is probably the best thing you can put on leather in terms of conditioning.

It's strange...I was working with some very fine French calf yesterday and thinking about Bick4 while using it to chase pipes.

Most of the silicone products, both commercial retail and wholesale, that I use are great waterproofers. But Bick4 almost washes away with water. Not entirely...but I use it on dry and wet leather and can always re-wet the leather. So if there are silicones in Bick4 (not doubting) they are not there in large amounts or are in some form that I'm not familiar with...and not sure I'm concerned about.

Just some thoughts..."straight from the bench"

 

Coincidentally, another thread just discussed some boots made up in French Calf.  Since you've mentioned it, could you expound on what kind of leather French Calf is?  Is it a hardy leather?  Or is the term really just describing calf leather that's been tanned in France, which means it could run the gamut in terms of hardiness, quality, etc.

post #8640 of 19843
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootSpell View Post

Coincidentally, another thread just discussed some boots made up in French Calf.  Since you've mentioned it, could you expound on what kind of leather French Calf is?  Is it a hardy leather?  Or is the term really just describing calf leather that's been tanned in France, which means it could run the gamut in terms of hardiness, quality, etc.

Pretty much like box calf.

But while the stuff I'm getting from one source (Annonay--French) is, as far as I can tell, identical to box calf, another source, again French, is softer and struck through. Both are great leathers. I wish I could combine the best of both, however.

I've always felt that leather for the best shoes should be struck through. But the Annonay, for instance, has a "harder" tighter grain. And I like that, too. But you seldom see a men's weight calf that is both.

Since you're in El Paso, Charles Hardtke used to carry a French calf that was both struck through and had a good grain surface. I discovered it just as they were discontinuing it. baldy[1].gif
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