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post #8581 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Hi - Reno is a fantastic product.....what do you mean 'all this negativity' though? Just curious.

As for the actual usage, can you post a pic by chance? Trying to follow 'artificial wrinkling'.....and if you are seeing veins in the leather well, that would be the leather not the product.

Renovateur is a very gentle conditioner.....it's main active ingredient is cosmetic grade real Mink Oil - it's not a harsh cleaner by any means. It's completely natural with no chemicals or solvent (besides water, which is technically a solvent). And it is, despite some recent comments I've read here, mainly a conditioner. It's ridiculous to think that this product.....on the market since the 20's and used/sold by Hermes, John Lobb, C&J, Berluti, LV, JM Weston, Gucci and on and on, would be harmful to shoes or leathergoods. Hell, they even use it in the Louvre on ancient bookbindings from what I'm told.

Anyway, I'd love to be pointed to some negativity so I can see if it is educated comments, maybe someone who used it incorrectly so I can help, or simply people typing away the day without much to say........that or maybe someone who has had enough of incessant advertising (me too, and I'm the distributor! It's not my deal.....) has decided to kick it around just cuse -
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I don't like the stuff because of my experiences with it over the years. Pretty much all of my shoes that have seen the beloved reno treatment have died. I have some shoes that are much older that saw nothing but lexol in their earlier years are in better shape than the reno cared for shoes, which are all cracking.

I have my doubts on it being water based. If it is water based why is it a creamy emulsion with no separation? There's got to be some sort of solvent in there?

I don't believe the main ingredient is mink oil, it doesn't behave like mink oil at all when applied. It actually polishes up quite nicely, which in my experience isn't mink oil like at all.

I don't know how good a conditioner or a cleaner renovator is or what other better products for conditioning or cleaning are out there. But I have been using it on my shoes for a few years without any adverse effects. I have also recently started using GlennKaren cleaner /conditioner. I think GK is a good conditioner but a stronger cleaner compared to renovator. I base this simply on how much polish comes off when applying the GK product vs Renovator. With Renovator it cleans very little but GK is almost good in cleaning and removing layers of waxes like Renomat but in a more gentle way. Both the renovator ang GK cleaner have a place in my shoe maintenance program.
post #8582 of 11259

it's probably best to apply lexol conditioner on the vamp to soften up the leather on new shoes, leading to less creases? 

post #8583 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Rider,

With regard to Reno...again, I plead ignorance to the ingredients and don't claim any useful experience with it. But I can read (and often do smile.gif ), nevertheless it's not as simple as "water based"...

From the MSD on Reno:

"Due to the solvents present, it is recommended that polyvinyl alcohol or nitrile rubber gloves be worn"


Wow, now that's going to be a big surprise for a number of us.

 

Now I'm real glad I've not just used my bare hands to rub this stuff in. Then again I don't use it as much as I once did anymore either.

post #8584 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Hi - Reno is a fantastic product.... -

I agree with Ron. I have tried more products than I care to mention and renovateur is actually the best.

In my experience for shoes in particular an emulsion works better than straight liquid conditioners. Whilst these are absorbed more quickly by the leather they also dissipate more readily, which in turn requires increased applications, with each application taking a little finish off with it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Your boots are holding up excellently.
FWIW, I like the Creme Universelle better. It seems to sink in better and be less of a "polish".

FWIW, I think reno is an excellent product for using a dab (like half the size of a pea) for swirling on the toe and heel over a wax polish to bring life back into the shine.

For the older shoes I was using whatever polish Barker Black was selling under their name brand. Saphir possibly. This was back in ~2006-ish.

I don't think I have been to the workshop of a single high end maker in France or Italy where they have not used creme universelle extensively. Interestingly enough I always find it gives my shoes quite a shine.

Barker Black Polish was made by Dasco.
post #8585 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JezeC View Post

it's probably best to apply lexol conditioner on the vamp to soften up the leather on new shoes, leading to less creases? 

Creases are inevitable. You just don't want them to crack.
post #8586 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post



Creases are inevitable. You just don't want them to crack.

 



I'm not trying to prevent creases, but more about treating new shoes properly to mitigate creases that would otherwise occur.

Some people mentioned to layer polish 3x on new shoes in another forum to prevent scatches on the leather, but that seems harmful than helpful to cover new shoes with so much product.

How about a simple polish and then some lexol conditioner on the vamp before initial wear? Would that suffice or is that even over doing it?
post #8587 of 11259
If you got ceases on your shoes, you are walking too much.

Causes of "extranormal creases" include improperly fitted shoes, not using shoe trees, water damage.

Not conditioning shoes isn't a common cause for them. But maybe you are dealing with vintage shoes...

Oh, and condition before polishing. Not the other way around.

For new pair of shoes, just wax the welt thread and lightly wax the whole shoes is good enough. Unless they been sitting in the inventory for years, there's no need to condition them.
post #8588 of 11259
Leather cracking can be caused by any number of factors--it is a problem that shoemakers have been dealing with for centuries. It's the most significant weakness of leather as a raw material.

It's not an accident nor insignificant that most if not all cracking occurs where the shoe flexes the most--in the creases that naturally develop in the forepart of the shoe. All things being equal, you never see cracking in the quarters or the facings.

My own perspective and experiences tell me that dirt is probably one of the major issues, if not the issue.

Conditioners that do not penetrate the leather but remain on the surface, collect grit and dirt. And we all try to get wax and conditioners deep into the creases of our shoes...right where accumulations of grit and dirt do the most damage.

Solvents dry leather...making it more susceptible to whatever comes next, whatever will cause cracking.

And while perhaps not something we can quantify, the more a shoe creases, the more likely it is to crack. The upshot is that as the heel gets lower, and the forepart flatter, the shoe has to bend...and crease...more to accommodate the flexing of the foot. IOW, a shoe with little toe spring may look good but it probably increases the likelihood of cracking.

My go-to product for conditioning is Bick4. I don't know the ingredients but it doesn't smell of solvents, doesn't feel greasy or waxy and penetrates the leather readily--where it is trapped by the fiber mat and remains to nourish the leather for longer that the moment. I seriously doubt that the "active" ingredients are either fugitive, drying, or occlusive as so many other products tend to be.
post #8589 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Hi - Reno is a fantastic product.....what do you mean 'all this negativity' though? Just curious.

As for the actual usage, can you post a pic by chance? Trying to follow 'artificial wrinkling'.....and if you are seeing veins in the leather well, that would be the leather not the product.

Renovateur is a very gentle conditioner.....it's main active ingredient is cosmetic grade real Mink Oil - it's not a harsh cleaner by any means. It's completely natural with no chemicals or solvent (besides water, which is technically a solvent). And it is, despite some recent comments I've read here, mainly a conditioner. It's ridiculous to think that this product.....on the market since the 20's and used/sold by Hermes, John Lobb, C&J, Berluti, LV, JM Weston, Gucci and on and on, would be harmful to shoes or leathergoods. Hell, they even use it in the Louvre on ancient bookbindings from what I'm told.

Anyway, I'd love to be pointed to some negativity so I can see if it is educated comments, maybe someone who used it incorrectly so I can help, or simply people typing away the day without much to say........that or maybe someone who has had enough of incessant advertising (me too, and I'm the distributor! It's not my deal.....) has decided to kick it around just cuse -

Every time Ron posts, I'm glad. Spot on.
post #8590 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poshak Man View Post


I don't know how good a conditioner or a cleaner renovator is or what other better products for conditioning or cleaning are out there. But I have been using it on my shoes for a few years without any adverse effects. I have also recently started using GlennKaren cleaner /conditioner. I think GK is a good conditioner but a stronger cleaner compared to renovator. I base this simply on how much polish comes off when applying the GK product vs Renovator. With Renovator it cleans very little but GK is almost good in cleaning and removing layers of waxes like Renomat but in a more gentle way. Both the renovator ang GK cleaner have a place in my shoe maintenance program.

I'm not sure I would want Renomat-level stripping each time I conditioned.
post #8591 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Hi - Reno is a fantastic product.....what do you mean 'all this negativity' though? Just curious.

As for the actual usage, can you post a pic by chance? Trying to follow 'artificial wrinkling'.....and if you are seeing veins in the leather well, that would be the leather not the product.

Renovateur is a very gentle conditioner.....it's main active ingredient is cosmetic grade real Mink Oil - it's not a harsh cleaner by any means. It's completely natural with no chemicals or solvent (besides water, which is technically a solvent). And it is, despite some recent comments I've read here, mainly a conditioner. It's ridiculous to think that this product.....on the market since the 20's and used/sold by Hermes, John Lobb, C&J, Berluti, LV, JM Weston, Gucci and on and on, would be harmful to shoes or leathergoods. Hell, they even use it in the Louvre on ancient bookbindings from what I'm told.

Anyway, I'd love to be pointed to some negativity so I can see if it is educated comments, maybe someone who used it incorrectly so I can help, or simply people typing away the day without much to say........that or maybe someone who has had enough of incessant advertising (me too, and I'm the distributor! It's not my deal.....) has decided to kick it around just cuse -

Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

As you can see in the pic from this weekend.....I use Creme Universelle mostly also - and Tarrago Balm as well.

We never made for Barker Black. If it was French it would have been Famaco, which is heavy stoddard solvent. If it was Japan (Columbus/Boot Black) their solvent is kerosene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northampton Novice View Post

I agree with Ron. I have tried more products than I care to mention and renovateur is actually the best.

In my experience for shoes in particular an emulsion works better than straight liquid conditioners. Whilst these are absorbed more quickly by the leather they also dissipate more readily, which in turn requires increased applications, with each application taking a little finish off with it....
I don't think I have been to the workshop of a single high end maker in France or Italy where they have not used creme universelle extensively. Interestingly enough I always find it gives my shoes quite a shine.

Barker Black Polish was made by Dasco.


Hats off, Reno is a fantastic product, far better than any on the market in its class.When it comes to cremes, waxes and conditioners I have used it all - Saphir, Boot Black, Colonil, Woly, Woods, Burgol, AE, Alden, Kiwi et al. I don't believe in bulling and spit shine, makes the shoe look cheap but much prefer the deep rich luster that natural leather brings out.

Reno and of late Creme Universelle needs to be used as it is supposed to, when so it is readily absorbed doesn't sit on the surface, lifts a little bit of old polish to prevent build up and brings up the deep luster when buffed or brushed with a goat hair brush. Of late I have been using Creme Universelle after each wear instead of the Reno or Polish Cremes and it seems to be doing a even finer job.

Reno is a product of years of research and probably millions in cost from a reputed firm like Avel, not a mom and pop shop and to say they would risk putting a product in the market with harmful stuff is suspicious at best.
post #8592 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JezeC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post



Creases are inevitable. You just don't want them to crack.

 



I'm not trying to prevent creases, but more about treating new shoes properly to mitigate creases that would otherwise occur.

Some people mentioned to layer polish 3x on new shoes in another forum to prevent scatches on the leather, but that seems harmful than helpful to cover new shoes with so much product.

How about a simple polish and then some lexol conditioner on the vamp before initial wear? Would that suffice or is that even over doing it?

I'd use the lexol, then polish. Anything more is overkill on new shoes. I'd even say the lexol is overkill on new shoes.
post #8593 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


My go-to product for conditioning is Bick4. I don't know the ingredients but it doesn't smell of solvents, doesn't feel greasy or waxy and penetrates the leather readily--where it is trapped by the fiber mat and remains to nourish the leather for longer that the moment. I seriously doubt that the "active" ingredients are either fugitive, drying, or occlusive as so many other products tend to be.

smile.gif

Perfect example of how everyone has a different take on products - especially makers. And, really, none are wrong! What works for one might be hated by another.....

I haven't seen or heard much about Bick 4 for years (I used to sell it in our retail shop as a local finder thought it was a great product, and was one of the things that I found unsatisfactory which lead me to look at options outside of the typical US leather products I had been using/selling) but I remember that it was very caustic - for me. We also, a couple of years ago, were approached by the editor of Horse Connection magazine (who had a marketing agency) who wanted to offer our Avel equestrian products into the market here as an upgrade over the typical tack shop products - especially for show riders who needed better quality goods. Anyway, we did some research and found many comments like this:
Quote:
Nice looking saddle.

Oil can be applied to the underside, as long as you don't overoil it so much that it wicks up to the surface and makes splotches. I tend to like Lexol NF for those light saddles, but even that will darken them somewhat. I used to be a fan of Bick 4, but the last bottle I bought makes the top layer(s) of skin peel off my hands since it is so either drying or irritating. I'ved recently read complaints on several boards where people say their saddles treated w/ Bick 4 now have surface cracks. And one person says the MSDS for Bick 4 says do not get on your skin. So, maybe it's not so great for leather then, hehe??? I'm not so wild about Bick 4 now, lol.

As far as it's make-up, it's water, naphta and some other chemicals I can't spell......pretty typical mix I guess.

Bick4LeatherConditioner.pdf 2340k .pdf file

Anyway, point is that there are many products out there.....some better than others and none, that I am aware of, that are not in some way harmful if used incorrectly.
post #8594 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

I'm not sure I would want Renomat-level stripping each time I conditioned.

Exactly......I'm not sure how this came up or who suggested it but, even on my own middlin little site, I only recommend using this - at most - a couple time a year.

Don't use this product regularly, period.

http://www.riderbootshop.com/saphir-renomat/
post #8595 of 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post


I'm not sure I would want Renomat-level stripping each time I conditioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


Exactly......I'm not sure how this came up or who suggested it but, even on my own middlin little site, I only recommend using this - at most - a couple time a year.

Don't use this product regularly, period.

http://www.riderbootshop.com/saphir-renomat/

 

+2  

 

In addition to some of the marketing speak that is out there, I think people often underestimate how much wax/polish comes off or dissipates just through the course of normal wear, such that they equate putting 2-3 layers of polish on during one session with needing to take those exact same 2-3 layers off with a fancy product the very next time they polish their shoes.  

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