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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 543

post #8131 of 12295
^apologize

I got clarification and I misunderstood. They were speaking of a diff maker that would be considered as "mid level" and not high end such as Vass or JL

Apologies
post #8132 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

When you guys opened your glen jay cream polish, was it hard, almost wax-like?

Also, to pBooths precious comment, I also get the whitish residue after I walk a bit (mostly in creases and in the brogueing) when I use neutral cream. Is that normal? Or mean I use too much.

As pB mentioned, it is not unusual get some minor white residue from using neutral polish. This is usually caused by using too much polish. Very little polish is needed to shine a shoe. This is true of most shoe polish, and especially true of GlenKaren polish.

As for the stiffness of the polish in the jar, this is due in part to the coconut oil in the polish. As the polish warms up from friction (movement of the leather fiber protein bundles, shoe brushing, etc.) or ambient room temperature, the polish will soften. Most shoe polish will soften when warm and be stiffer when cool (mostly due to the waxes), it is just more pronounced with GlenKaren polish.

An interesting side effect of the coconut oil is that if you store your shoes for an extended period of time in a cool area you may get a very slight haze on the leather surface. a quick brush of the shoes liquefies the coconut oil haze and gives the shoe a fresh polished glow. Of course this is not true of the High Shine Paste (no coconut oil).
post #8133 of 12295
Do you recommend storing the cream and/or shoes in a warmer environment?
post #8134 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Do you recommend storing the cream and/or shoes in a warmer environment?

No, not really. I would avoid extremes of very hot, arid, or freezing cold for storing any shoes, but other than that there are no special requirements.
post #8135 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by namdaemun View Post

^apologize

I got clarification and I misunderstood. They were speaking of a diff maker that would be considered as "mid level" and not high end such as Vass or JL

Apologies

Thanks for setting that straight.
post #8136 of 12295

I hate to lower the tone but a shoe product I have found very useful is Doc Marten's Wonder Balsam. 'Dr. Martens Wonder Balsam is a unique combination of coconut oil, lanolin, and beeswax'. It is good for those shoes you save to wear in the wet and, of course, any Doc Marten shoes or boots you may have, I have two pairs of their, goodyear welted, shoes and the Wonder Balsam is ideal for keeping them supple. Note that it contains that magical ingredient, coconut oil, so beloved of many a contributor to this thread. 

post #8137 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

I hate to lower the tone but a shoe product I have found very useful is Doc Marten's Wonder Balsam. 'Dr. Martens Wonder Balsam is a unique combination of coconut oil, lanolin, and beeswax'. It is good for those shoes you save to wear in the wet and, of course, any Doc Marten shoes or boots you may have, I have two pairs of their, goodyear welted, shoes and the Wonder Balsam is ideal for keeping them supple. Note that it contains that magical ingredient, coconut oil, so beloved of many a contributor to this thread. 

Doc Martens still makes proper GYW shoes? I thought they were only doing their funky proprietary process now

post #8138 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

I hate to lower the tone but a shoe product I have found very useful is Doc Marten's Wonder Balsam. 'Dr. Martens Wonder Balsam is a unique combination of coconut oil, lanolin, and beeswax'. It is good for those shoes you save to wear in the wet and, of course, any Doc Marten shoes or boots you may have, I have two pairs of their, goodyear welted, shoes and the Wonder Balsam is ideal for keeping them supple. Note that it contains that magical ingredient, coconut oil, so beloved of many a contributor to this thread. 

I bet it doesn't taste as good as GlenKaren though.
post #8139 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Keep them clean! Use conditioners that are light on, or better, devoid of, heavily "saturated" (?) oils/fats--such as mineral oil, mink oil, neetsfoot oil, or tallow. Avoid any product that leaves a residue--glycerin saddle soap is an example. Even shoe creams fit into that category to some extent, esp. if not used with deliberation.

Also avoid any product that contains turpentine or benzine or other "dying agent."

I would recommend Bick4. It won't change the colour of the leather nor suffocate it with oils. That said, I don't think you can go wrong with light applications of Lexol (in the brown container).

And use a ph balanced soap such as Lexol cleaner (in the orange bottle). Baby shampoo is ph balanced and it works pretty good as well. As long as you replenish the conditioners in the leather when it is dry, frequent cleaning is always good.

Every shoe or boot is going to crease. That's supposed to happen, but especially in the case of lizard, micro-fines collect in the interstices between the tiles and slowly begin to abrade and cut the fibers of the leather.

Lizard is very thin and it is most delicate between the tiles. Eventually it will crack ...right between the tiles. I am of the opinion that the single biggest threat to lizard is the build-up of gunk in those spaces.

The old wisdom is to never tree a western boot (or 'pull-on") because the heel stiffener is not shaped to the back of the last. And the heel of the last is more straight up and down relative to shoe lasts, in any case. Such boots need to break in, they need to get creases in strategic places in order to avoid heel slip. Treeing a boot flattens those creases.

I guess you can see where I'm going here...if the boot fits you good, tree them for a while right after taking them off. Wipe them down with a soft cloth when they are treed to remove fines from between the tiles. But don't leave the trees in all the time.


Many high end, high priced "dedicated" products are formulated more to protect the finish on specialty leathers than to maintain or restore the "life" of the leather itself. You don't need to get sucked into the hype about "Reptile Conditioners", etc..

Check out Glenkaren products--they are all natural and don't contain any of the chemicals I mentioned above.

So...keep 'em clean, condition frequently and use a good polish applied sparingly. All the polish does is add wax to repel some water and dust.

Same general advice for lizard shoes applies.

--

 Pardon my ignorance but does the portion about -not treeing boots- apply to chukka boots and short lace boots comparable to chukkas in size? Or is it okay to tree them?

 

Thank you

post #8140 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalzolaiFeF View Post
 

 

 

When you talk about leather, the concept of scraps simply doesn't exist.

You cut the best from the center, then you use the margin to make trial shoes, to experiment new models, to fill in the bottoms, to test the dyes and finishes... Nothing gets thrown away simply because isn't the best part <img data-cke-saved-src=

 



Makes good sense to me.

That shaggy pair of Vass suede are just horrible. I don't excuse it, nor would I accept it. I will say that in the half dozen pair of Vass shoes that I own, such poor quality leather is not evident. As such, I would be reluctant to accept, based on one pair alone, that this reflects common practice from them. I have been following the Vass thread on this forum for some time - people are not shy to complain about any aspect of the shoes that displease them.

Far from the 'nobody notices / nobody complains' paradigm - at least on this forum, the reverse seems to be true. People seem to go over their shoes with a magnifying glass searching for any fault or blemish. I have lost track of how many macro-pics of circled-in-red micro-faults I have viewed on these pages. But I have certainly never seen the likesof this shaggy shoe posted from Vass before.

I don't generally dispute the notion that $4k bespoke shoes will reflect higher quality materials and higher quality control standards than $700 ready-to-wear shoes. I don't know why one would expect otherwise. But I do reject the notion that such obvious poor quality hides as shown in this example represent the rule, rather than the significant exception in premium RTW shoes (and no, I am not suggesting that you have advanced such a proposition).

Thanks for your continued contributions to this forum.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post


This is interesting, because I have never heard anything like this coming from Vass. Could your friends show us examples, so we know what problems with QC//bad materials they use, so we can potentially avoid it?

(Just an interesting comment, considering vass is considered one of the best deals on the market for handmade shoes, and has never been accused of shoddy workmanship or poor leather to my knowledge)

 

 

As you know I'm a huge Vass fan, and own four pairs today and have owned more, and they are great shoes, especially considering the price. They buy great leather and only use the first grade ones which are very supple and nice. But, I do think that they are using a larger part of the hides than for example Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling. The toe and vamp are always first class, but for the quarters they are in some cases using leather that are from a piece of the leather that are a bit lower in quality, IME. Not bad, not at all, but not prime. I do think that Vass still offers the best value of shoes out there, I mean they are completely hand made but are still half the price or less than the Goodyear welted top RTW-makers, but on that part they are not quite as good as the very best.

 

That said, I've never seen a Vass pair that look as bad as the suede pair shown a page back. That is a shoe that should have been marked as subs, and a mistake from Vass part.


Edited by j ingevaldsson - 2/21/14 at 4:26am
post #8141 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post




As you know I'm a huge Vass fan, and own four pairs today and have owned more, and they are great shoes, especially considering the price. They buy great leather and only use the first grade ones which are very supple and nice. But, I do think that they are using a larger part of the hides than for example Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling. The toe and vamp are always first class, but for the quarters they are in some cases using leather that are from a piece of the leather that are a bit lower in quality, IME. Not bad, not at all, but not prime. I do think that Vass still offers the best value of shoes out there, I mean they are completely hand made but are still half the price or less than the Goodyear welted top RTW-makers, but on that part they are not quite as good as the very best.

That said, I've never seen a Vass pair that look as bad as the suede pair shown a page back. That is a shoe that should have been marked as subs, and a mistake from Vass part.

Fair comments all around J.
post #8142 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickTime View Post

 Pardon my ignorance but does the portion about -not treeing boots- apply to chukka boots and short lace boots comparable to chukkas in size? Or is it okay to tree them?

Thank you

No, I tree my chukkas and chelseas and jodhpurs all the time.

Pull on boots...such as cowboy boots...don't have the cupped heel stiffener that a shoe has. If they did they would be hard to get into when they fit properly. The whole idea of not treeing them is to accentuate and facilitate the ability of the heel stiffener to grip the heel of the foot.
post #8143 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post




As you know I'm a huge Vass fan, and own four pairs today and have owned more, and they are great shoes, especially considering the price. They buy great leather and only use the first grade ones which are very supple and nice. But, I do think that they are using a larger part of the hides than for example Edward Green or Gaziano & Girling. The toe and vamp are always first class, but for the quarters they are in some cases using leather that are from a piece of the leather that are a bit lower in quality, IME. Not bad, not at all, but not prime. I do think that Vass still offers the best value of shoes out there, I mean they are completely hand made but are still half the price or less than the Goodyear welted top RTW-makers, but on that part they are not quite as good as the very best.

That said, I've never seen a Vass pair that look as bad as the suede pair shown a page back. That is a shoe that should have been marked as subs, and a mistake from Vass part.

Several points...the whole discussion was not about a particular maker. This thread, as the title indicates, is about shoe and leather care. Yes, the original questioner identified the maker but no one else repeated or addressed that until the near the end of the discussion. Had the question been posted in a more appropriate thread, it may have developed in a different direction.

IMO, those that have made the maker an issue do a disservice both to the maker and to the people who were having an objective, rational discussion. It's really beside the point.

"Quality or quantity--choose one." Any time a maker chooses quantity over quality as a primary objective this kind of thing happens. You can see it in any of the Trades from gunsmithing to shoemaking to woodworking. It's only a question of where they draw the line, not if, and only for the time it takes for the foundational philosophy to lose currency...either through death or attrition or lack of faith.

And FWIW, the OP said that he had brushed the shoes...so, it is entirely possible that hey came to him looking nearly perfect. If the fiber mat was compressed...as it would be in the uncut hide...it very well could have survived making without that compression being significantly disturbed. The OP may not have noticed anything amiss, IOW, until he brushed them. Even QC might have overlooked the problem esp. if the inspection was in any way cursory. And we don't know how or what he brushed the shoes with. Eventually, the problem would have surfaced but by that time the owner would have been uncertain and reluctant to make a fuss about it. And in fact, at that point, no one could know the cause for certain.
post #8144 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Several points...the whole discussion was not about a particular maker. This thread, as the title indicates, is about shoe and leather care. Yes, the original questioner identified the maker but no one else repeated or addressed that until the near the end of the discussion. Had the question been posted in a more appropriate thread, it may have developed in a different direction.

IMO, those that have made the maker an issue do a disservice both to the maker and to the people who were having an objective, rational discussion. It's really beside the point.

"Quality or quantity--choose one." Any time a maker chooses quantity over quality as a primary objective this kind of thing happens. You can see it in any of the Trades from gunsmithing to shoemaking to woodworking. It's only a question of where they draw the line, not if, and only for the time it takes for the foundational philosophy to lose currency...either through death or attrition or lack of faith.

And FWIW, the OP said that he had brushed the shoes...so, it is entirely possible that hey came to him looking nearly perfect. If the fiber mat was compressed...as it would be in the uncut hide...it very well could have survived making without that compression being significantly disturbed. The OP may not have noticed anything amiss, IOW, until he brushed them. Even QC might have overlooked the problem esp. if the inspection was in any way cursory. And we don't know how or what he brushed the shoes with. Eventually, the problem would have surfaced but by that time the owner would have been uncertain and reluctant to make a fuss about it. And in fact, at that point, no one could know the cause for certain.

 

I thought you were allowed to pick up parts of a comment and discuss that here on SF, didn't realize that you had to follow a certain discussion. Also, didn't realize that you weren't suppose to discuss a certain brand in this thread. I'm not usually following it. But if the discussions aren't allowed of taking certain turns around different subjects, rather than just following the exact line that every thread is "supposed" to be intended for, I think SF would be a rather boring place.

 

Regarding the fact about how and if the OP had treated the suede, I totally agree.

post #8145 of 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

I thought you were allowed to pick up parts of a comment and discuss that here on SF, didn't realize that you had to follow a certain discussion. Also, didn't realize that you weren't suppose to discuss a certain brand in this thread. I'm not usually following it. But if the discussions aren't allowed of taking certain turns around different subjects, rather than just following the exact line that every thread is "supposed" to be intended for, I think SF would be a rather boring place.

Regarding the fact about how and if the OP had treated the suede, I totally agree.

I'm not saying you can't. I do that all the time--follow the conversation where-ever it goes. Sometimes it's even me...riffing off something someone else said...that gets off track or off topic.

But this issue, here, has become focused on brands and which team people are rooting for rather than dealing with the objective facts. That kind of discussion is never gonna be productive if only because linear thinking isn't an attribute held in much regard here. It's all about emotions in most of these threads...from the "wow factor," to the devotion and defensiveness people who've invested thousand of dollars associate with their choices, to the obsequiousness of group-think.

I suspect that rather than deal with the objective facts and the logic that was being discussed, some folks felt more comfortable making the brand name / maker an issue. It just seems like an excuse for histrionics rather than rational discussion.

IMO...
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